Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 02 Feb 2007 00:52

I have this information but as it was provided by somebody else I cannot forward it to anybody.

As for the Dodge staff car: this is true and part of the vehicle can be seen in the photos taken in la Vaulx Richard on December 18, 1944.

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Untersturmfuhrer Rolf Telle

Post by waffen-IDF » 05 Mar 2010 08:39

Harro wrote:Rolf Telle (born in Döbeln, 2 June 1922) was definitely an Untersturmführer.
He was indeed and Ustf.

2Lt:9.11.44
SOJ. 12.KJL, SS-PzGren.Sch 9.44

Does anyone have his SS No. ?

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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by francis wuillot » 29 Apr 2010 21:31

hi Friends !
to those who should be interested, I own an SS-Officer ring in silver which was found in the woods near Rahier, between Stavelot and La Gleize, in Belgium, in 2001. This ring wears, engraved in the inner circle, the name : Heinrich Goltz, 28 juni 1921, and on the outer circle : "Leibstandarte (in the middle, the SS runes, medalion of the ring) Adolf Hitler 1941". No doubt that this ring has been lost during the retreat of the german troops.
It's a one-of-a-kind piece, and a real, genuine part of History. Because it has been owned by one of the principal actors of the Battle of the Bulge.
Asap, I'll show some photos, as I have to repair my camera.

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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 30 Apr 2010 14:52

Odd, it is unlikely that Goltz ever got near Rahier. He was in La Gleize in the night from the 18th to the 19th but very briefly. He then drove through Trois-Ponts and positioned his men in Ster - a hamlet between Coo, Trois-Ponts and Stavelot - untill his men were pushed back to Petit-Spai on the 21st and then retreated to Wanne on the 25th. Rahier is approximately 15 kilometers to the west. Did the Leibstandarte ever reach Rahier?

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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 25 Jun 2010 13:07

A lot of the information I gave in this topic recently showed up in a book about Kampfgruppe Knittel written by Belgian historian Matthieu Longue. Over the past years he stalked me through emails because he wanted unpublished photos and information from my files. I did not want to cooperate with him. To my surprise his book does credit me once for information he used from what I posted about Leidreiter but most information he used is left uncredited (including several photos). I do realize that once posted in a public forum such info becomes as such public but when the book even offers one-on-one translations of what I wrote it becomes a bit annoying that credits have not been given. For example, compare..
Harro wrote:Those are indeed the names. The grave at Lommel is indeed the Untersturmführer who led the Pionierzug in the Ardennes, the man responsible for the killings in Parfondruy.

Ludwig Sieber, the Untersturmführer who led the III. Zug of the 2. Kompanie in the Ardennes, the man responsible for the killings in the Legaye House in Stavelot, was killed in action on April 2, 1945, in Steinabrückl in Austria. He was in command of the 2. Kompanie at that time. Unterscharführer Herold and his driver Rottenführer Bilan, took the body with them on the engine deck of an SPW but later left the body behind in an unknown hamlet when the villagers promised to burry Sieber. His body has not been recovered by the Volksbund and he is listed as missing in action.

As for the other question: no such casualty list exists.
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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 25 Jun 2010 13:27

BTW, my source is a letter I received from Walter H. (the former driver of SS-Obersturmführer Coblenz) dated the 8th of February 2006:
Plötzlich war der Russe da. Untersturmführer Sieber war es sogar gelungen bei der Stabskompanie Geschütze von den SPW abzuhängen. Bei der folgenden Schiesserei wurde er tödlich verwundet. Die Leiche von Ludwig Sieber ist vom Funktruppführer Unterscharführer Herold und Fahrer Rottenführer Bilan geborgen und vorn auf die Motorhaube des Schützenpanzerwagens mitgenommen worden. Irgendwann sind sie später von der Bevölkerung angesprochen worden, was mit dem Soldaten auf der Motorhaube los sei. Den könnt ihr hier beerdigen. Dann haben sie ihn vom Wagen gehoben und sind weitergefahren. Mit Herold habe ich nach dem Kriege, bis zu seinem Tod, Verbindung gehabt. Über den Verbleib von Bilan, der aus Ostberlin stammte, war auch Herold nicht informiert. Beide wissen aber auch nicht in welchem Ort sie Sieber vom SPW gehoben haben.

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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 16 Sep 2010 14:07

Interesting, Heimdal published an English edition of Longue's book....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ardennes-1944-K ... 2840482754

I suppose this means somebody translated the information Longue took from me from French back to English. Meanwhile it has been almost three months since I complained to Edition Heimdal but no reply :roll:

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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Davy » 16 Sep 2010 14:41

Hi,
i have nothing to do with this book or with Longue, don't know the guy.
The info i asked was just for my own personel research.
Sad to see that someone just used the info without given credits to you.

Greatings, Davy

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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 16 Sep 2010 14:43

Hi Davy, no problem, I know you have nothing to do with it and I only posted this information to help you out. I guess this is how it works, several other researchers also complained to Heimdal because I'm not the only one who's information and photo's Longue used without proper credits.

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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Dutto1 » 16 Sep 2010 15:16

I received my quarterly book catalogue from the publishing company Helion yesterday,it contains Matthew Longue s book published by Heimdal on KG Knittel.It is the same book that is on your amazon link Helion say the text is French only.Amazon sell quite a few of the Heimdal titles even altough the text is in French.
It is bad news what he has done i hope Heimdal withold some of his royalties from the book as punishment.


Regards

Dutto1

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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Scotsman » 26 Oct 2010 21:53

I see there is a complaint on Amazon that the book is sent out in French Language and not in English so I do not think that there is an English Edition available . Does anyone know what became of August rauber after his escape with Herr Leidreiter and after the war ?

regards
Brian

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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Dutto1 » 27 Oct 2010 19:09

Hi Brian,

You are correct that there is no English edition of the book.Regarding your other question the best person to ask is Harro he is an experst on SS AA-1

Regards

Ron

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Re:

Post by Moniroth You-Bell » 30 Sep 2013 05:39

Harro wrote:Those are indeed the names. The grave at Lommel is indeed the Untersturmführer who led the Pionierzug in the Ardennes, the man responsible for the killings in Parfondruy.

Ludwig Sieber, the Untersturmführer who led the III. Zug of the 2. Kompanie in the Ardennes, the man responsible for the killings in the Legaye House in Stavelot, was killed in action on April 2, 1945, in Steinabrückl in Austria. He was in command of the 2. Kompanie at that time. Unterscharführer Herold and his driver Rottenführer Bilan, took the body with them on the engine deck of an SPW but later left the body behind in an unknown hamlet when the villagers promised to burry Sieber. His body has not been recovered by the Volksbund and he is listed as missing in action.

As for the other question: no such casualty list exists.

Harro,

Unterscharführer Herold

Max Herold
B:1.2.20
PAB:1.9.43 Uscha, 4./SS-PGR.2

???

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Re:

Post by Georg_S » 26 Jun 2019 08:10

Davy wrote:
08 Aug 2006 19:59
Thanks Timo,
that is great info.
Do you have the names of the SS-members who are tried together with Goltz?
Here is a picture of the grave of SS-Untersturmführer Heinrich Dröge?
He is buried in Lommel, Belgium.
Where can i found a casualtylist of SS-men (LSSAH, Das Reich, Hitlerjugend, Hohenstaufen...) who are been killed in the Bulge?

Greatings Davy.
Strange that the men of Kameradschaft AA 1 didn´t know that Dröge was KIA, or pherhaps was he found after that this ad was published in the early 60´s Source DF

Best reg

Georg
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Harro
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Re: Parfondruy - Trial Heinrich Goltz

Post by Harro » 26 Jun 2019 10:04

He wasn't a confirmed death until his remains were identified after the war.

On the 22nd of December 1944 after they took the survivors from the basement of the Dejardin House the Americans assembled fourteen prisoners in the street including the mortally wounded Dröge who's arm was almost completely torn off. Lieutenant Warnock later claimed that Coblenz asked Vendt for a bayonet which he subsequently gave to Leidholt who, assisted by an American medic, amputated Dröge’s arm with it. However, Coblenz insisted that Dröge received no medical aid and angrily rejected the story about the bayonet. Coblenz recounted that they were first led towards the centre of Stavelot on foot and had to carry the wounded Dröge. There a truck already loaded with sacks full of cloth, probably uniforms, was ordered to transport them. He lay on these sacks and other men were then piled on top of him so he almost choked. They drove uphill out of Stavelot and spent their first night in captivity in a cold pigsty. His wounds were not dressed. They were then transported to a mud camp near Aachen were many prisoners of war from the Ardennes Offensive were collected. They did not see Dröge after that. The following day they were tightly packed in trucks and driven to the railway station in Namur where they were loaded in cattle cars for transport to Normandy.

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