The Camps from the SS perspective

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Scott Smith
Member
Posts: 5602
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 21:17
Location: Arizona

Re: Cruci-Fiction?

Post by Scott Smith » 21 Nov 2002 22:29

Roberto wrote:Apart from the fact that there's nothing weird or "miraculous" about a cruel killing in an environment of cruelty like that of a concentration camp, are there any examples from historiography that you can show us in support of your contention?
Yes, I know. Nazi-atrocities are automatically true, Roberto, because they fit your "bubble."
:wink:

User avatar
Roberto
Member
Posts: 4505
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 15:35
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Post by Roberto » 21 Nov 2002 22:32

Scott Smith wrote:None of this makes discrimination and atrocities "better," but the murder-factory thesis needs to be revised.
Why so, Mr. Smith?

Have you found evidence that, say, the 1,274,166 Jews from the General Government who arrived at Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Lublin-Maidanek until 31.12.1942, according to Höfle's message to Heim of 11 January 1943, ended up somewhere else than in the mass graves of these camps?

The document as intercepted and translated by the British decoding service at Bletchley Park, courtesy of Charles Bunch:
13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250

State Secret!

To the Senior Commander of the Security Police [and the Security Service], for the attention of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer HEIM, CRACOW.

Subject: fortnightly report Einsatz REINHART.
Reference: radio telegram therefrom.

recorded arrivals until December 31, 42,

L [Lublin] 12,761,
B [Belzec] 0,
S [Sobibor] 515,
T [Treblinka] 10 335 [,]

together 23 611

sum total…[as per] December 31, 42,

L 24 733,
B 434 508,
S 101 370,
T 71 355, read: 713 555]

together 1 274 166

SS and Police Leader Lublin, HOFLE, Sturmbannfuhrer
Scott Smith wrote:As far as Genocide, it largely depends on whose ox is being gored.
Not at all. It is clearly defined in the 1948 Convention on thePrevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:
Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Source of quote:

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

Scott Smith wrote:Hamburg and Hiroshima were also holocausts. The victims were "selected" because they were Germans and Japanese.
:)
No, they were killed in military actions aimed at forcing their governments to surrender, and the killing stopped as soon as that surrender had been accomplished.

Whose surrender would have stopped the Nazi slaughter of Jews and other undesirables, Mr. Smith?

User avatar
Scott Smith
Member
Posts: 5602
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 21:17
Location: Arizona

Post by Scott Smith » 21 Nov 2002 22:34

test

Rick-rs
Member
Posts: 67
Joined: 04 Apr 2002 12:14
Location: Rotterdam

Post by Rick-rs » 21 Nov 2002 22:34

Dan,it's a long story and you are right most of the time,and that is excactly why I don't understand you,now I agree the creation of a firestorm in Hamburg and Dresden are equaly crimes against humanity and so is dropping the bombs on Japan,specially in that fase of the war.

So is the killing of Russians by Germans in tremendous numbers and I even think that keep on sending in US infantry into the Hurtgen forrest was a crime.

But you don't answer the important question,you try to dazzle people with facts from which I think shows that you know a lot of WW II,so answer me this,the witness rapports of Neurenberg that deals with Auschwitz- Birkenau,this states clearly that there where deathfactories and gaschambers,crematoria etc. why do they did this?
You say there is no proof,so how about these statements?
And why,what do they tried to achiev?

Cheers Rick

User avatar
Roberto
Member
Posts: 4505
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 15:35
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Re: Cruci-Fiction?

Post by Roberto » 21 Nov 2002 22:34

Scott Smith wrote:
Roberto wrote:Apart from the fact that there's nothing weird or "miraculous" about a cruel killing in an environment of cruelty like that of a concentration camp, are there any examples from historiography that you can show us in support of your contention?
Yes, I know. Nazi-atrocities are automatically true, Roberto, because they fit your "bubble."
:wink:
Unlike Smith, I have no "bubble".

So how about cutting out the bullshit and trying to answer my question, Mr. Smith?

User avatar
Hans
Member
Posts: 651
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 15:48
Location: Germany

Post by Hans » 21 Nov 2002 22:35

This dicussion won't end by itself, so I close the thread.

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”