Atrocities in the Val di Fiemme

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Atrocities in the Val di Fiemme

Post by Ander » 15 Oct 2006 22:17

Hello all.

Val di Fiemme is a small valley in the Dolomites in Northern Italy.

After an armistice for the area had already be signed, between 2nd and 4th May 1945 retreating german SS, police and army forces had killed a large number of civilians and partisans and burned down houses and other buildings in several villages in the Val di Fiemme.

Does anybody know which SS, police and army units participted in the atrocities? Where did these units come from and where did they intend to escape to? Did they not have a surrender plan?

Regards

Pillbuster
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 00:20
Location: USA

Post by Pillbuster » 16 Oct 2006 06:13

How detailed is the record of partisan activity against the occupation forces in that area before and during the 2nd through 4th of May 1945?

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Bergmolch » 16 Oct 2006 11:03

I remember something about big things against partisans in the villages amongst the Val di Bois, Belluno (Dolomiti): houses were burned and few civilians were killed.
I think there was involved the SS-Pol.-Rgt. "Bozen" but I would double check because Im not sure 100%.

Cheers
T

Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Atrocities in Val di Fiemme

Post by Ander » 16 Oct 2006 21:36

Hello all,

thanks for your replies.
There is not much information available on this subject.

It appears that an SS-regiment was in retreat as a closed formation. I guess that sort of movement wasn't really envisaged by the armistice. Probably on 2nd May 1945 partisans attacked the vehicles at the head of the moving unit, killing some soldiers and seizing around 67 wounded who were part of the convoy.

Apparently the partisans refused to release the wounded back to the unit to move on and on 4th May the SS-regiment began its atrocities. 18 houses were burnt in Molina di Fiemme and 10 were burnt in Stramentizzo. 14 civilians and 13 partisans were killed.

I cannot find any indication which SS-unit was responsible for this action, although there must be some indication who they were as they left dead soldiers behind.

Where was the regiment heading for? Did they want to make their way back to Germany or did they just want to leave the partisan area in which in prior months they had committed many killings?

Hope to hear from you again.

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Atrocities in Val di Fiemme

Post by Bergmolch » 17 Oct 2006 13:50

If Im not wrong that was a Sudtyrolean SS Pol.Rgt. which was trying to cross the border with the Reich to escape from allies and partisans.
I will check for you, give me few days.
It would be parts of the Rgt. Bozen?

cheers
T

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Atrocities in Val di Fiemme

Post by Bergmolch » 10 Nov 2006 17:58

Then, standing to my sources, the unit was the SS-Pol.-Rgt."Schlanders" formed by sud tyrolean.
At the end of the war they retreated towards the Deutsches Reich border throu Cortina d'Ampezzo and Val Pusteria, shooting and burning whatever and whoever would stand between them and the border trying to stop them.

Cheers
T

Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

SS-units in Val di Fiemme 0n 4. 5. 1945.

Post by Ander » 12 Nov 2006 12:32

Hello All,

thanks very much for all the information Drapeau Noir.

That makes a lot of sense. An earlier post in the Axis History Forum says that the Schlanders SS - Polizei regiments were sationed in:
I. regiment in Roncegno.
II. regiment in Pasubio.
III. regiment in Feltre.

When retreating towards the North or North East they could have come through Val di Fiemme.

Nearly all the villages in the area have their individual internet postings to tell the story about the war's end in May 1945 and to remember the resistance of the local young partisans.

On several occassions unnamed SS-units destroyed valuable infrastructure after the unconditional surrender had taken effect at 14,00 h on May 2 1945.

One particular brutal SS-captain Hegenbart, who was the commander of the german garrison in STRIGNO, very often gets mentioned. I don't know to which unit he belonged. I may start a new thread in the SS/Police section to perhaps find out more about him.

Regards.

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SS-units in Val di Fiemme 0n 4. 5. 1945.

Post by Bergmolch » 16 Nov 2006 14:42

Ander wrote:Hello All,

thanks very much for all the information Drapeau Noir.

That makes a lot of sense. An earlier post in the Axis History Forum says that the Schlanders SS - Polizei regiments were sationed in:
I. regiment in Roncegno.
II. regiment in Pasubio.
III. regiment in Feltre.

When retreating towards the North or North East they could have come through Val di Fiemme.

Nearly all the villages in the area have their individual internet postings to tell the story about the war's end in May 1945 and to remember the resistance of the local young partisans.

On several occassions unnamed SS-units destroyed valuable infrastructure after the unconditional surrender had taken effect at 14,00 h on May 2 1945.

One particular brutal SS-captain Hegenbart, who was the commander of the german garrison in STRIGNO, very often gets mentioned. I don't know to which unit he belonged. I may start a new thread in the SS/Police section to perhaps find out more about him.

Regards.


Ander
Actually there was just 1 SS-Pol.-Rgt."Schlanders".
The serial number I. II. III. are just the Btl.

Cheers
T

Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Val di Fiemme

Post by Ander » 18 Nov 2006 14:37

Hello Drapeau Noir,

Thanks for the clarification.

Ander

Pillbuster
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 00:20
Location: USA

Post by Pillbuster » 23 Nov 2006 06:29

It appears that an SS-regiment was in retreat as a closed formation. I guess that sort of movement wasn't really envisaged by the armistice. Probably on 2nd May 1945 partisans attacked the vehicles at the head of the moving unit, killing some soldiers and seizing around 67 wounded who were part of the convoy.

Apparently the partisans refused to release the wounded back to the unit to move on and on 4th May the SS-regiment began its atrocities. 18 houses were burnt in Molina di Fiemme and 10 were burnt in Stramentizzo. 14 civilians and 13 partisans were killed.


Nearly all the villages in the area have their individual internet postings to tell the story about the war's end in May 1945 and to remember the resistance of the local young partisans.


Interesting. So the partisans, AFTER the armistice 2nd May, attacked a German convoy, in the process killed soldiers, then seized the convoy's 67 wounded?
What medical treatment did the "seized" 67 wounded receive from the partisans and their supporters? How many of these 67 survived the war to tell THEIR story?

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Bergmolch » 23 Nov 2006 11:18

Hi,

As far as I know there were clashes between german/coll. forces and partisans untill 8/9 May 1945.
At the Karawaken pass (Slovenia/Austria) german/coll. were moving up north trying to pass by the border with the Reich: they were stopped by Titoist's troops, I think around 9 May 1945, obstructing the Pass with a T34.
After a quick chat with the English forces, alreay in the Reich on the Austrian side of the pass, the Germans destroyed the thank with a Panzerfaust and moved on passying by the pass.
Again there were clashes during the following days in all Slovenia, old people use to say they heard the explosions for several days after the end of the war; infact the Titoist's partisans were trying to stop all the german/coll. troops left in serbian and croatian territory, who were trying to reach the Reich border to surrender to the allies (because surrender to the Titoist would be meant to be killed immediately) .

Cheers
T

Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Post by Ander » 24 Nov 2006 20:15

Hi Pillbuster,

thanks for your post.

Interesting. So the partisans, AFTER the armistice 2nd May, attacked a German convoy, in the process killed soldiers, then seized the convoy's 67 wounded?
What medical treatment did the "seized" 67 wounded receive from the partisans and their supporters? How many of these 67 survived the war to tell THEIR story?


It is impossible to say what happened to the 67 wounded. One must presume that the local partisans handed them over to an army hospital for treatment and those hospitals were under Allied-control after the armistice.

SS-units had committed brutal war crimes against the local population until signing of the armistice and after it. These units were to surrender on the spot. As the US- forces didn't stop the escaping "war-crime"-units, the poorly equipped partisan forces had to do it.

It really shows that the allied forces in the area still didn't have much practical control over the area, such a short time after the armistice was signed, eg. they were not able to enforce the agreed regulations although they had already claimed total victory.

People who wrongly believed that the allied forces were already in control often paid a high price for their wrong presumption.

Regards

c.g.
Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 20:42
Location: Germany

Post by c.g. » 25 Nov 2006 23:05

The German units involved were the Gebirskampfschule der Waffen SS (CO Schintlholzer) and an unidentified paratroop battallion. Apparently - according to an investigation right after the atrocity had happend - a car with a party of officers (among them the SS unit medical officer) was attacked by partisans in the square of the village and the officers killed. After that the SS troops and the paratrooper moved towards the village killing many partisans and civilians. Nothing is known of large losses by the German troops.
I hope this helps
CG

User avatar
Bergmolch
Member
Posts: 818
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 18:01
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Bergmolch » 26 Nov 2006 00:19

Ander wrote:Hi Pillbuster,

thanks for your post.

Interesting. So the partisans, AFTER the armistice 2nd May, attacked a German convoy, in the process killed soldiers, then seized the convoy's 67 wounded?
What medical treatment did the "seized" 67 wounded receive from the partisans and their supporters? How many of these 67 survived the war to tell THEIR story?


It is impossible to say what happened to the 67 wounded. One must presume that the local partisans handed them over to an army hospital for treatment and those hospitals were under Allied-control after the armistice.

SS-units had committed brutal war crimes against the local population until signing of the armistice and after it. These units were to surrender on the spot. As the US- forces didn't stop the escaping "war-crime"-units, the poorly equipped partisan forces had to do it.

It really shows that the allied forces in the area still didn't have much practical control over the area, such a short time after the armistice was signed, eg. they were not able to enforce the agreed regulations although they had already claimed total victory.

People who wrongly believed that the allied forces were already in control often paid a high price for their wrong presumption.

Regards


The partisans in OZAK and OZAV had commited brutal crimes against population and german army as well, this is not the matter.
This is war, the war drive men mad.

Cheers
T

Ander
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 22:09
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Val di Fiemme

Post by Ander » 26 Nov 2006 22:25

Hello All,

many thanks for answering the question.

It appears that Schintelholzer had good reasons to hide until long after the war. The search engines bring up interesting things about him.

Regards.

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”