Condom used by Japanese soldiers against Comfort Women

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Kim Sung
Member
Posts: 5039
Joined: 28 May 2005 13:36
Location: The Last Confucian State

Post by Kim Sung » 13 Nov 2006 06:43

Penn44 wrote:A general question for Kim Sung:

Do you claim that all comfort women were involuntary sex workers?

Penn44

.


There were also some Japanese comfort women. They are basically voluntary sex workers. But in case of Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, Filipina and Dutch comfort women, there are very few, if any, voluntary sex workers.

Especially in case of Korean and Chinese women who lived in sexually ultra conservative Confucian countries, it was unimaginable for a woman to volunteer for sex service. As far as sexual matters are concerned, Korea then was like today's Iran or Saudi Arabia. Who can imagine that an Iranian girl or a Saudi Arabian girl volunteers for sex service for a foreign army?

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 13 Nov 2006 13:05

Penn44 wrote:A general question for Kim Sung:

Do you claim that all comfort women were involuntary sex workers?

Penn44
.


Kim Sung wrote: Especially in case of Korean and Chinese women who lived in sexually ultra conservative Confucian countries, it was unimaginable for a woman to volunteer for sex service. As far as sexual matters are concerned, Korea then was like today's Iran or Saudi Arabia. Who can imagine that an Iranian girl or a Saudi Arabian girl volunteers for sex service for a foreign army?


Kim Sung, are we talking about the same Korea? How do you explain the multitude of Korean prostitutes in South Korea since 1945 until today? Were/are these Korean women forced into prostitution?

Penn44

.

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 13 Nov 2006 13:16

Kim Sung wrote:
Penn44 wrote:I concur with ChristopherPerrien regarding the logos of condums and that the logos of condoms are insufficient proof that a war crime occurred. I doubt a French tickler condom really came from France or that it ever tickled anyone.

Penn44

.


The logos on condoms are a more persuasive evidence than collective accounts for the Japanese.


If the logo said, "Attention Japanese soldier - Use this condom when sexually assaulting an enslaved comfort woman" you might be right. However, the logo gives no clue that it was intended for this purpose.

Penn44

.

User avatar
Kim Sung
Member
Posts: 5039
Joined: 28 May 2005 13:36
Location: The Last Confucian State

Post by Kim Sung » 13 Nov 2006 13:51

Penn44 wrote:If the logo said, "Attention Japanese soldier - Use this condom when sexually assaulting an enslaved comfort woman" you might be right. However, the logo gives no clue that it was intended for this purpose.

Penn44

.

Do you think the Japanese are fools? Why would they do such a silly thing? Leaving the evidences of atrocities by themselves? Did the Germans write "This box is used to exterminate the evil Jews" on poison gas boxes? A person with a normal IQ wouldn't do such a foolish thing. Note that the Japanese have tried to conceal their war crimes for more than 61 years.

Dotsugeki Ichiban symbolizes gang rape. Direct expression can be an undeniable evidence so they adopted an indirect expression that has a more insulting meaning. Asian languages are much more symbolic than western languages.

Knowledge of the Japanese language will be helpful in understanding what I have said in this thread.

User avatar
Kim Sung
Member
Posts: 5039
Joined: 28 May 2005 13:36
Location: The Last Confucian State

Post by Kim Sung » 13 Nov 2006 15:00

The Korean society has been rapidly secularized by the American culture since 1945. We are talking about incidents before 1945. If you mean those comfort women were voluntary sex workers, you are completely wrong.

And today's Korea still has very strict moral rules which are very rare in other Asian and western countries. Prostitution is completely banned in Korea. Korean girls are quite different from liberal western girls. Except Islamic countries and a few South Asian countries, Korea is the most conservative country on sex in the world.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23262
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 13 Nov 2006 16:01

Let's stay on the subject of war crimes, please.

User avatar
Kim Sung
Member
Posts: 5039
Joined: 28 May 2005 13:36
Location: The Last Confucian State

Post by Kim Sung » 13 Nov 2006 16:18

Korean girls became targets for the Japanese because they were brought up in a very conservative society compared to Japan and they were in most cases virgins.

The Japanese started thinking of using comfort women because they had a harsh experience in China. In the Sino-Japanese war, some Japanese troops got a big blow because gang rape against Chinese women brought them venereal diseases. So they started to pick up Korean girls who are more hygienic than Japanese girls.

ChristopherPerrien
Member
Posts: 7023
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 00:58
Location: Mississippi

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 13 Nov 2006 18:24

Kim Sung wrote:Korean girls became targets for the Japanese because they were brought up in a very conservative society compared to Japan and they were in most cases virgins.

The Japanese started thinking of using comfort women because they had a harsh experience in China. In the Sino-Japanese war, some Japanese troops got a big blow because gang rape against Chinese women brought them venereal diseases. So they started to pick up Korean girls who are more hygienic than Japanese girls.


I think you go too far here Kim. Large numbers of soldiers and a small number of available women ( voluntary or involuntary) is what spreads VD. It has nothing to with what nationality or race the women are. Generally I have found Oriental women
( Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Philipinos) to be quite "fastidious" even the hookers compared to other nationalities of women. Your comment about there being more Korean Virgins, might have some weight since Korea has a larger percentage of "Christians" and Christianity can influence how long a girl stays a virgin. Perhaps you may be a Korean Christian yourself which might explain these over-zealous statements. But for the most part I don't think this or geography, had much effect on the proclivitibies (sp?) of Japanese soldiers.

Condoms and "comfort women" were an indespensable part of the Japanese war machine. Many of these comfort women were forced into it either directly by force or indirectly by necessity and that is a form of forced labor which makes it a war-crime. But without getting into the details I know why the Japanese may not view the forced prostitution of the Japanese Empire in WWII as a war-crime. I'd call it a "mental-block", it doesn't make those crimes any less heinous, but it might explain why Japanese Denial of them is because they simply can't see things that way.

Still I think the Japnese should pay reparations to all comfort women , even the ones who want the money yet did the job voluntarily. As in any mass crime or class action lawsuit, "culpability" and who exactly was a victim, and why, will never be specific for everyone's satisfaction. Japan can afford to pay for all these claims , and I see no good reason why they should not.

tonyh
Member
Posts: 2911
Joined: 19 Mar 2002 12:59
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post by tonyh » 13 Nov 2006 18:43

This is getting more ridiculous by the minute...

Tony

User avatar
Kim Sung
Member
Posts: 5039
Joined: 28 May 2005 13:36
Location: The Last Confucian State

Post by Kim Sung » 14 Nov 2006 01:09

ChristopherPerrien wrote:I think you go too far here Kim. Large numbers of soldiers and a small number of available women ( voluntary or involuntary) is what spreads VD. It has nothing to with what nationality or race the women are. Generally I have found Oriental women ( Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Philipinos) to be quite "fastidious" even the hookers compared to other nationalities of women. Your comment about there being more Korean Virgins, might have some weight since Korea has a larger percentage of "Christians" and Christianity can influence how long a girl stays a virgin. Perhaps you may be a Korean Christian yourself which might explain these over-zealous statements. But for the most part I don't think this or geography, had much effect on the proclivitibies (sp?) of Japanese soldiers.


Chris, unlike Europe and the American continent, East Asia consists of quite different cultures. China, Korea and Vietnam belong to the Confucian Cultural Sphere. The Phillippines have been greatly influence by the western culture. And Japan has a unique culture different from the Confucian Cultural Sphere. Korean and Chinese women's fastidiousness is not related to Chistianity but to Confucianism which puts much emphasis on women's chasitity. Unlike Korean and Chinese girls, Japanese girls and Filipinas are as liberal as western girls because they were not influenced by Confucianism. The Japanese intended to destroy chastity of Confucian women, especially Korean women.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23262
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 14 Nov 2006 02:51

Let's get back to the discussion of war crimes, please. (2nd warning). Otherwise this thread will have a padlock in its future.

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 05:51

Kim Sung wrote:Korean girls became targets for the Japanese because they were brought up in a very conservative society compared to Japan and they were in most cases virgins.

The Japanese started thinking of using comfort women because they had a harsh experience in China. In the Sino-Japanese war, some Japanese troops got a big blow because gang rape against Chinese women brought them venereal diseases. So they started to pick up Korean girls who are more hygienic than Japanese girls.


Do you have any evidence to support any of your claims?

Not only are you asserting the Japanese committed a war crime, you have also insulted Japanese womanhood.

Penn44

.

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 05:52

Kim Sung wrote: The Japanese intended to destroy chastity of Confucian women, especially Korean women.


Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Penn44


.

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 05:57

Unfortunately, your argument has been derailed by Korean nationalist and anti-Japanese rhetoric.

Penn44


.

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 14 Nov 2006 06:50

This might be of interest but I think we are talking about "professional" girls being used.

http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Sexual_slavery

According to some Korean scholars, the South Korean military had a "comfort women" system in the Korean and Vietnam Wars


A recent Dutch controversy as well:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/061023/137/68pug.html

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”