Condom used by Japanese soldiers against Comfort Women

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michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 14 Nov 2006 06:53

Deleted.
Last edited by michael mills on 14 Nov 2006 07:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Kim Sung
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Post by Kim Sung » 14 Nov 2006 07:13

Penn44:

Thanks for increasing my total posts. I find no meaning in debating with you on this subject about which you have almost no knowledge. There are a lot of other threads in which you can participate with your knowledge and logic.

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Kim Sung
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Post by Kim Sung » 14 Nov 2006 07:14

Peter H wrote:
According to some Korean scholars, the South Korean military had a "comfort women" system in the Korean and Vietnam Wars


Yes, I know.

michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 14 Nov 2006 07:14

Re Penn44's question:



Do you claim that all comfort women were involuntary sex workers?



It depends on what constitutes "voluntary" behaviour.

Some European women interned in Sumatra during the war were invited by their Japanese captors to become "hostesses" in the offers' casino, where they would live in comfort and be well fed.

No pressure was placed on those women, and they were free to decline the invitation and remain in the internment camps where they suffered starvation and disease.

Some of the women took up the Japanese offer and went to work as high-class "hostesses" in the officers' casinos, where they lived out the war in relative comfort. Others declined, and suffered in the internment camps, where many died.

Were those women who chose to become "hostesses" acting voluntarily? After the war, some of them claimed to have been forced, even raped; there is one high-profile case here in Australia. However, their accounts show that they were regarded with contempt by those women who refused the invitation, and were called "sluts" and "whores" by them.

Certainly the women who chose to remain in the deadly internment camps rather than become "hostesses" seem to have regarded the women who took up the Japanese invitation as persons of low moral character who were acting voluntarily.

But can anyone blame those women, given that the alternative was dreadful suffering in the internment camps, with the strong likelihood of not surviving?

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 15:48

Kim Sung wrote:
Penn44 wrote:The posting of arbitrary images of alleged condoms is not relevant.
Penn44

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Penn44, if you don't have nothing to contribute to the forum except such a remark, you had better keep silent.


Kim Sung wrote:Penn44:
Thanks for increasing my total posts. I find no meaning in debating with you on this subject about which you have almost no knowledge. There are a lot of other threads in which you can participate with your knowledge and logic.


Kim Sung:

You do not own this forum nor control this thread. I’ve noticed your threatening posts and ignored them as they are as weak as your logic.

Not only I, but several other posters have stated that your use of a brand of Japanese condoms to support your claim is weak. If you cannot see this, that is your problem. As Confucius said, “A man with closed eyes cannot see.”

Penn44

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 16:21

Kim Sung wrote:
Peter H wrote:
According to some Korean scholars, the South Korean military had a "comfort women" system in the Korean and Vietnam Wars


Yes, I know.


You state above that you know, yet you previously stated:

Kim Sung wrote:And today's Korea still has very strict moral rules which are very rare in other Asian and western countries. Prostitution is completely banned in Korea. Korean girls are quite different from liberal western girls. Except Islamic countries and a few South Asian countries, Korea is the most conservative country on sex in the world.


What's the real story - yes or no?

Despite what Kim Sung says, prostitution is actually quite common in Korea. Over the last decade, because of the increased demand, the South Koreans have actually brought in Filipino and Russian reinforcements. This is called human sex trafficking.

Who served as ROK Army comfort girls? Eskimos? Swahilis? No, it was Korean girls. Old Confucius must be rolling over in his grave.

Over the years, I have spoken to several US veterans who served in Korea, and they reported that Korean brothel managers, "mamasans" routinely purchased girls from poor Korean farm families and from orphanages, and then forced these girls to work in the brothels until they earned enough to pay off mamasan for her initial investment in the girl.

Even today, Korean mamasans bring in foreign girls, many under false pretenses, and they end up as “comfort girls” in Korean bars.

This is not “secularization” as Kim Sung calls it. I strongly suspect the practice predated 1945. I would like to know what was the role Koreans played in furnishing Korean women to Japanese Army to serve as comfort women. If this is true, then there are Koreans who also owe reparations to these Korean comfort women.

Penn44


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ToKu
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Post by ToKu » 14 Nov 2006 17:13

Just about the reparations thing.

Probably Penn is right that there were some Koreans that did bad things in comfort women story. but Korean state is not guilty at all, so "bad koreans" might be prosecuted, pay some money as a part of their INDIVIDUAL penal punishment, or even as a result of civil law claims.

Things are different in case of Japan. IMO they should pay reparations AS A COUNTRY. With base not in penal (or civil), but in international law.

I.m no expert in English but word reparations usually comes with international law not penal or civil branches.

Mixing this two things is just a try to cover things behind smoke screen a little.

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Post by Potsdamerplatz » 14 Nov 2006 17:29

Penn44 wrote:
Kim Sung wrote:
Penn44 wrote:The posting of arbitrary images of alleged condoms is not relevant.
Penn44

.

Penn44, if you don't have nothing to contribute to the forum except such a remark, you had better keep silent.


Kim Sung wrote:Penn44:
Thanks for increasing my total posts. I find no meaning in debating with you on this subject about which you have almost no knowledge. There are a lot of other threads in which you can participate with your knowledge and logic.


Kim Sung:

You do not own this forum nor control this thread. I’ve noticed your threatening posts and ignored them as they are as weak as your logic.

Not only I, but several other posters have stated that your use of a brand of Japanese condoms to support your claim is weak. If you cannot see this, that is your problem. As Confucius said, “A man with closed eyes cannot see.”

Penn44

.



Penn44,

You have made it clear right from the start of this thread that you don't agree with Kim Sung's position. You are entitled to state your opinion of course but why do you keep on coming out with the same negative statements?

You have stated your views quite clearly on this topic and it's obvious that nothing Kim Sung says will change your mind. I suggest you move on to another topic and let others have their say. Your posts on this thread and constant snipes at Kim Sung are becoming tiresome. :roll:

Potsdamerplatz


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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 17:57

Potsdamerplatz wrote:Penn44,

You have made it clear right from the start of this thread that you don't agree with Kim Sung's position. You are entitled to state your opinion of course but why do you keep on coming out with the same negative statements?

You have stated your views quite clearly on this topic and it's obvious that nothing Kim Sung says will change your mind. I suggest you move on to another topic and let others have their say. Your posts on this thread are becoming tiresome. :roll:

Potsdamerplatz


Potsdamerplatz:
Within this thread, Kim Sung has raised a number of different points in different posts. I have raised objections to several of those points in different posts which the rules of this forum entitles me to. If you disagree with the purpose of this forum or the manner that the moderator manages it that is your issue.

Penn44

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Last edited by Penn44 on 14 Nov 2006 19:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 14 Nov 2006 18:43

ToKu wrote:Just about the reparations thing.

Probably Penn is right that there were some Koreans that did bad things in comfort women story. but Korean state is not guilty at all, so "bad koreans" might be prosecuted, pay some money as a part of their INDIVIDUAL penal punishment, or even as a result of civil law claims.

Things are different in case of Japan. IMO they should pay reparations AS A COUNTRY. With base not in penal (or civil), but in international law. …

Mixing this two things is just a try to cover things behind smoke screen a little.


My comments about Koreans engaged in comfort woman business was not intended to deflect guilt away from the Japanese, but place the unfortunate practice into the appropriate historical-cultural context. I did this for two reasons: 1) I considered it particularly important to do so after one poster made ultra-nationalistic, holier than thou claims about his nation while blaming another nation and defaming its female population; 2) I am interested to know what role the Koreans had in providing Korean women to the Japanese as comfort woman.

I am not pro- or anti-Japanese. I think the Japanese government owes a number of nations and individuals reparations. I am concerned, however, that all aspects of this particular historical story come to light despite the bitter allegations and manipulations of both sides involved.

And I am not about to rest this historical case on one prophylactic.

The question of reparations is often a difficult issue to resolve. As this case illustrates, it is often difficult for some victims to prove that they were in fact victims.

For example, under the provisions of the US-Germany Holocaust reparations agreement in the mid-1990s, to be eligible for reparations, a US citizen had to prove that they were in a German concentration camp. For some, this was a difficult, for others, impossible.

The Germans agreed to the above agreement not because it necessarily the right thing to do, but in part because the Germans were concerned they would lose much more if US citizens took their companies to court in the US.

Penn44

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Post by David Thompson » 14 Nov 2006 19:44

Despite two prior warnings, some of the posters keep trying to take this thread off the subject of Japanese "comfort women." For that reason the thread is closed for 24 hours. When it reopens, further off-topic or redundant opinion posts will be deleted on sight.

The philosophy here at AHF is is to provide as many facts on the issue as possible, allow the contributors to state their point of view in a civil manner, and let the readers make up their own minds. I don't have a problem with posters reasonably disagreeing with each other, but posts which repeat the same argument or conclusion more than once or twice are redundant and merely clutter the thread.

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Post by David Thompson » 16 Nov 2006 03:16

This thread is reopened for on-topic, sourced posts.

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Post by Kim Sung » 16 Nov 2006 05:48

I'll start some contructive discussions again from now on. Everybody can have a different opinion but, if somebody expresses it with negative remarks again and again, he is not qualified to participate in this discussion.

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Kim Sung
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Post by Kim Sung » 16 Nov 2006 07:09

http://news.media.daum.net/society/affa ... 36802.html

This is becoming a big news here. Newspapers and TVs broadcast this everyday. I've never seen the media pays such an attention to this matter. This is the most important discovery on Japanese war crimes after WWII. Every internet forums are flooded with this news and people's reaction to the news.

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Post by David Thompson » 16 Nov 2006 07:28

Kim Sung -- Is there any chance you can give our readers either a translation or synopsis? While our readership is international, the vast majority of our visitors are from Europe and North America, and their skills in reading the Korean language may be limited.

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