Marzabotto trial

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
michael mills
Member
Posts: 8820
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 12:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Marzabotto trial

Post by michael mills » 30 Aug 2019 05:13

Sigh! How many times do I have to repeat what I initially wrote before you will take notice of it?

Here it is yet again:
The Germans in Marzabotto in 1944 acted more ruthlessly than the British in Malaya a few years later, in that instead of rounding up the villagers and interning them, they simply massacred them. In so doing, they overstepped the bounds of legality and committed a war-crime. Nevertheless, the reason for their action against Marzabotto was the same as the reason for British action against villagers in Malaya.
Last edited by michael mills on 30 Aug 2019 05:26, edited 1 time in total.

michael mills
Member
Posts: 8820
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 12:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Marzabotto trial

Post by michael mills » 30 Aug 2019 05:25

Slovene Liberal, not everybody who joined the SS supported every element of Hitler's racial ideology. A large number were motivated primarily by hostility toward Communism and the Soviet Union, and saw Germany as the main force fighting against it.

In a similar vein, the large number of Italians who collaborated with the Germans and joined the armed forces of the Italian Social Republic were motivated essentially by opposition to Communism rather than by any sort of racial ideology. This was a civil war, with right-wing Italians killing left-wing Italians and vice versa.

SloveneLiberal
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 12:54
Location: Slovenia

Re: Marzabotto trial

Post by SloveneLiberal » 30 Aug 2019 08:47

Michael. M. "fighting communism" near Gothic line in the second half of 1944 does not sound as very sane idea to me. Even you said before it was clear the Americans and the British will sooner or later break it. Yet they were encouraging resistance very much. It was clear they will bring democracy with them and support pro-allied governament in Rome made up of different political parties. Killing of hunders of unarmed catholic farmers does not also sound as "fight against communism".

If you were right wing Italian you could support for example christian democrats in CLN or join their brigades or you could even support monarchistic party or join its troops. Republican neofascists were even claiming that now when they are with the help of Germans free of monarchy they can be more social, claiming each Italian will have the right to his own appartement for example which is quite left wing policy in this part. Yet it was not very convincing because at the same time allied planes were turning many buildings in to the rubble.
Last edited by SloveneLiberal on 30 Aug 2019 10:15, edited 1 time in total.

SloveneLiberal
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 12:54
Location: Slovenia

Re: Marzabotto trial

Post by SloveneLiberal » 30 Aug 2019 08:55

Well if somebody will find the judgement of Italian court from 2007 or judgement against SS commander Reder from 1951 please post it here. We can probably learn some more details.

Berto
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 06 Oct 2016 14:27
Location: Italy

Re: Marzabotto trial

Post by Berto » 30 Aug 2019 13:17

michael mills wrote:
30 Aug 2019 05:13
Sigh! How many times do I have to repeat what I initially wrote before you will take notice of it?
That is, that the fault of the massacre lies more with the inhabitants of Marzabotto than with the SS?
In a similar vein, the large number of Italians who collaborated with the Germans and joined the armed forces of the Italian Social Republic were motivated essentially by opposition to Communism rather than by any sort of racial ideology. This was a civil war, with right-wing Italians killing left-wing Italians and vice versa.
Uhm, no. There was perhaps what can be defined as a civil war, but not "right wing vs left wing", with the Italian Social Republic trying to suppress Communists. The Italian Resistance included people of all political political hue except of course Fascists. There were Communists, there were Socialists, there were Social Democrats, there were Liberals, there were Catholics (the "Green Flames" Brigades, with 20,000 men in 1944), there were Monarchists, there were "autonomous" partisan groups without a specific political affiliation (for instance Enrico Martini's "1° Gruppo Divisioni Alpine" in Piedmont, mostly composed of former officers and soldiers of the Italian armed forces)... It was the Fascists vs everyone.

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”