6 million killed in holocaust? Maybe more?

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Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 29 Dec 2002 01:16

Polish historians have recently revised their estimate of the number of Christian Poles killed by the Nazis. They now say it's about 2,000,000.

However, another million or so perished at the hands of the Soviets. Of course, this wasn't discussed openly during the Soviet occupation.

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Scott Smith
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Bowdoing...

Post by Scott Smith » 29 Dec 2002 01:29

This may come as a surprise to you, but the facts of history are not a matter of a point of view.
And Chuck knows these doctrines. Chuck has all the answers. His facts are only the proven facts.

Chuck is like the all-seeing eye at the top of the pyramid. Perhaps he learned this at his alma mater.

But they didn't teach him the most important thing about knowledge. That it is not absolute. That it is not a certainty. Except morally, that its.

And here Chuckoin history is exposed for what it is: dogmatism and superstition.
8O

Charles Bunch
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Re: Little State U.

Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 01:38

Scott Smith wrote:
This may come as a surprise to you, but the facts of history are not a matter of a point of view.
And Chuck knows these doctrines. Chuck has all the answers. His facts are only the proven facts.
This is not a doctrine.

It was Mr. Smith himself who claimed the Soviet exhibit of human soap either was either true or a lie.

Sounds like Smith believes in facts when it suits him!
Chuck is like the all-seeing eye at the top of the pyramid. Perhaps he learned this at his alma mater.
Chuck is one of many people who point out your denial of facts which are inconvenient for you and other Nazi apologists.

Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.
But they didn't teach him the most important thing about knowledge. That it is not absolute. That it is not a certainty. Except morally, that its.
Smith does his usual shuffle.

Knowledge and facts are not equivalent.
And here Chuckoin history is exposed for what it is: dogmatism and superstition.
Exposed by whom, you!!!!!

Dogmatism is the method of Holocaust deniers, who contort themselves into intellectual pretzels to deny proven history.

Charles Bunch
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Re: Little State U.

Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 01:39

Scott Smith wrote:
This may come as a surprise to you, but the facts of history are not a matter of a point of view.
And Chuck knows these doctrines. Chuck has all the answers. His facts are only the proven facts.
This is not a doctrine.

It was Mr. Smith himself who claimed the Soviet exhibit of human soap either was either true or a lie.

Sounds like Smith believes in facts when it suits him!
Chuck is like the all-seeing eye at the top of the pyramid. Perhaps he learned this at his alma mater.
Chuck is one of many people who point out your denial of facts which are inconvenient for you and other Nazi apologists.

Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.
But they didn't teach him the most important thing about knowledge. That it is not absolute. That it is not a certainty. Except morally, that its.
Smith does his usual shuffle.

Knowledge and facts are not equivalent.
And here Chuckoin history is exposed for what it is: dogmatism and superstition.
Exposed by whom, you!!!!!

Dogmatism is the method of Holocaust deniers, who contort themselves into intellectual pretzels to deny proven history.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 01:50

Charles Bunch wrote:
Dan wrote:
The Holocaust, the deliberate attempt by Nazi Germany to exterminate the Jews of Europe by various means, including gas chambers, is a proven fact of history.
If you substitute "exterminate the Jews of Europe" with "get the Jews out of Europe", the sentence would be less controversial.
And it would be utterly false!
Charles, if it's possible, try not to be our resident fanatic.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 01:52

Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.

And please quit bragging about how much better educated you are than the rest of us mortals. Yes, you're elite, but why rub it in our faces?

Charles Bunch
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Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 02:59

Dan wrote:
Charles Bunch wrote:
Dan wrote:
The Holocaust, the deliberate attempt by Nazi Germany to exterminate the Jews of Europe by various means, including gas chambers, is a proven fact of history.
If you substitute "exterminate the Jews of Europe" with "get the Jews out of Europe", the sentence would be less controversial.
And it would be utterly false!
Charles, if it's possible, try not to be our resident fanatic.
Pointing out that the Nazis didn't seek to get the Jews out of Europe, but sought to exterminate them, is hardly fanatical!

Your claim, on the other hand, would be considered idiotic in all but the tiny circle of Holocaust Deniers.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:06

Pointing out that the Nazis didn't seek to get the Jews out of Europe, but sought to exterminate them, is hardly fanatical!
My son, you are indeed a fanatic. Tell us how many Jews survived in Berlin itself at the end of the war?

Why can't you see that many Jews were murdered, many were forced out of German controled territory, and many were kept healthy as slave labors, and many were given special status from people like the Goerings?

These are complex questions and issues.

Charles Bunch
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Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 03:25

Dan wrote:
Pointing out that the Nazis didn't seek to get the Jews out of Europe, but sought to exterminate them, is hardly fanatical!
My son, you are indeed a fanatic. Tell us how many Jews survived in Berlin itself at the end of the war?
A tiny number.

Tell us the significance of that statement.
Why can't you see that many Jews were murdered, many were forced out of German controled territory,
Not after the instigation of the Final Solution.

>and many were kept healthy as slave labors, and many were given special status from people like the Goerings?

Many survived the Holocaust because the war ended before they could be killed.
These are complex questions and issues.
No they're not.

They're drivel, which is why _only_deniers invest them with the importance you do.

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 29 Dec 2002 03:41

Dan,

You wrote that the approximative numbers of death in concentration camps is about 2 millions by establish historians. I am really interested to know the names of those historians?

Regards

Charles Bunch
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Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 03:45

Dan wrote:
Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.

And please quit bragging about how much better educated you are than the rest of us mortals. Yes, you're elite, but why rub it in our faces?
I've done no such thing.

Mr. Smith raised the issue in one of those moments where he had nothing else to say.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:45

Benoit Douville wrote:Dan,

You wrote that the approximative numbers of death in concentration camps is about 2 millions by establish historians. I am really interested to know the names of those historians?

Regards
Benoit, after following current thought, I come up with

Treblinka 870,000
Auschitz 750,000
Chelmno 150,000

Others, tens of thousands

Give or take several tens of thousands.

Best

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:47

BTW, Benoit, I said gas chamber deaths, not total number of Jews

Very best

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witness
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Post by witness » 29 Dec 2002 03:48

and many were given special status from people like the Goerings?
I am not sure Dan that I know what you are talking about.
Could you elaborate ?

Dan
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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:50

Charles Bunch wrote:
Dan wrote:
Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.

And please quit bragging about how much better educated you are than the rest of us mortals. Yes, you're elite, but why rub it in our faces?
I've done no such thing.

Mr. Smith raised the issue in one of those moments where he had nothing else to say.
And when you said that antiSemitism is the oldest form of human hatred, and that Soap Libel is credible, what did you have in mind?

Why don't you just concentrate on the facts? We've all made mistakes! Let bygones be bygones, and don't scare away new blood!

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