6 million killed in holocaust? Maybe more?

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witness
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Post by witness » 29 Dec 2002 03:51

Dan if to add your numbers to the numbers of the Jews executed by Einsatzcgruppen it would be somewhere around 4 millions . Seems like extermination policy ,don't you think ?

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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:54

witness wrote:Dan if to add your numbers to the numbers of the Jews executed by Einsatzcgruppen it would be somewhere around 4 millions . Seems like extermination policy ,don't you think ?
The original question was how many died in Gas Chambers. I made no comment, I just tried to help a new fellow.

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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 03:57

witness wrote:
and many were given special status from people like the Goerings?
I am not sure Dan that I know what you are talking about.
Could you elaborate ?
Yes, Irving's book on Goering is great. His god-parents were Jewish, Dr. and Mrs. Epstein, and they were taken care of. His brother even got in trouble helping out Jews. If you can get his book, it's very interesting.

Best
Dan

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witness
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Post by witness » 29 Dec 2002 03:58

Thank you Dan
Best Regards :)

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Post by cybercat » 29 Dec 2002 04:00

Actually Eichmann himself came up with the figure of 6 million jews murdered during the war. Whilst talking to a colleague he said that 6 million were killed, 4 million in the camps and 2 million by einsatzgruppen then he complained that Himmler wasn't satisfied. I saw this testimony on the Holocaust section of "The World at War" documentary on BBC2 this evening. I first saw this documentary in the early seventies as a schoolboy.

As Eichmann organised transport for the victims and was involved with the camps themselves, then I believe that he should know more than others an approximate number, within a couple of hundred thousand, of Jews murdered.
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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 29 Dec 2002 04:00

Dan,

I understand but it seems to me that if the numbers of the total of 6 millions jews murdered is correct, that mean that about 4 millions were killed by the Einsatzgruppen and it seems very high to me...

Regards

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Scott Smith
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The Ivied Moral Elite...

Post by Scott Smith » 29 Dec 2002 04:13

Benoit Douville wrote:Dan,

You wrote that the approximative numbers of death in concentration camps is about 2 millions by establish historians. I am really interested to know the names of those historians?
No, Dan said that mainstream historians claim that approximately 2 million (out of the 5-6 million Jews total who were killed or died) were killed by poison gas.

Chuck, however, thinks that all such details are immutable facts beyond any debate whatever. He knows the score. No complex issues involved, just idiocy and Denial and "the" established, canonical history.
Chuck wrote:Knowledge and facts are not equivalent.
We are talking about the knowledge of facts, their veracity, and the interpretations derived thereof.

But presumably, Chuck decides which are facts and which are not. This is how they taught him to think at Bowdoing, facts and history in terms of Moral Certainties.

And one fact is that Soviet Prosecutor Comrade Smirnov tried to palm off something as a sample of Nazi Human Soap: Nuremberg exhibit USSR-393.

Human Soap--another moral certainty--ya' gotta Believe it!

Image
Chuck wrote:Mr. Smith raised the issue in one of those moments where he had nothing else to say.
If I first brought it up then how did I know you went to Bowdoing University?
:P
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witness
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Post by witness » 29 Dec 2002 04:14

In the book "Hitler shadow war'' by M.McKale the author writes that :
according to the most reliable estimates ,a minimum of 5,290000
and maximum of slightly more over 6 millions Jews died

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witness
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Post by witness » 29 Dec 2002 04:31

From the same book :
Poland (2,700000, 90 percent );Yugoslavia (65000 ,90 percent);
Greece (59185 ,83 percent);Slovakia ( 70000, 79 percent);Hungary (550000 , 76 percent );the Netherlands (102000, 73percent);Germany
(165000 ,70 percent )The Protectorate (77297, 65 percent ) Rumania
(211214 , 48 percent );the Soviet Union (2100000 , 45 percent )
Norway ( 758,42 percent ); Austria ( 65459 ' 35 percent ) Belgium
(28518 , 32 percent); France (76134 , 25 percent ) Italy (6513 .19 percent ) and Denmark ( 116 , 0019 percent )Additionally Luxemburg lost 1200 Jews and Albania lost 591

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Re:

Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 04:34

Scott Smith wrote:
Benoit Douville wrote:Dan,

You wrote that the approximative numbers of death in concentration camps is about 2 millions by establish historians. I am really interested to know the names of those historians?
No, Dan said that mainstream historians claim that approximately 2 million (out of the 5-6 million Jews total who were killed or died) were killed by poison gas.
And Dan is wrong.
Chuck, however, thinks that all such details are immutable facts beyond any debate whatever.


Well, it is a pretty clear cut case that either historians do say what Dan claims, or they do not.

And Mr. Smith doesn't debate anything. He merely denies evidence because he knows the conclusions that evidence leads to does not fit with his agenda.
He knows the score. No complex issues involved, just idiocy and Denial and "the" established, canonical history.
More examples of Mr. Smith's poor intellectual training.

No one said there were not complex issues. The issues Dan claimed were complex are not. You never raise complex issues.
Chuck wrote:Knowledge and facts are not equivalent.
We are talking about the knowledge of facts, their veracity, and the interpretations derived thereof.
No, we were talking about facts, and facts alone. Not their interpretations.
Knowledge is something else.
But presumably, Chuck decides which are facts and which are not. This is how they taught him to think at Bowdoing, facts and history in terms of Moral Certainties.
The simple facts of history are taught at every school. Even good students learn that interpreting history is something one does _after_ learning it!

But when your goal is denial of history, I guess you can deliberately, or sadly, confuse interpretation with fact, or knowledge with fact, or just about anything with anything so long as it serves the goal of mindless denial.
And one fact is that Soviet Prosecutor Comrade Smirnov tried to palm off something as a sample of Nazi Human Soap: Nuremberg exhibit USSR-393.
But Mr. Smith doesn't know whether he palmed anything off on anyone. But he is is willing to make a judgement in ignorance, because for people like Mr. Smith, opinion and interpretation are just as important as facts, and we all know the old saying about opinions!!
Chuck wrote:Mr. Smith raised the issue in one of those moments where he had nothing else to say.
If I first brought it up then how did I know you went to Bowdoing University?
He's talking about today's conversations Mr. Smith.

Do try to keep up!

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Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 04:36

Dan wrote:
Benoit Douville wrote:Dan,

You wrote that the approximative numbers of death in concentration camps is about 2 millions by establish historians. I am really interested to know the names of those historians?

Regards
Benoit, after following current thought, I come up with

Treblinka 870,000
Auschitz 750,000
Chelmno 150,000

Others, tens of thousands

Give or take several tens of thousands.

Best
I see, and we're supposed to ignore Belzec, Sobibor, and Maidanek?

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Post by DarExc » 29 Dec 2002 04:39

I have seen this also about the Goerings. Hermann always turned a blind eye to his brother Alberts missions to save jews from extermnation and getting them new identities and getting them deported. I remember at my old high school a jewish guy actualy had dedicated a little wreath to Albert Goering on remembrance day and spoke well of the acts that Hermann Goering made to keep his brother out of trouble and allow him to speak on his behalf on numerous occasions. This is not to say Hermann Goering was a saint (although I believe his brother was) as there are many deaths Hermann could have prevented but did not.

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Post by Charles Bunch » 29 Dec 2002 04:39

Dan wrote:
Charles Bunch wrote:
Dan wrote:
Even at State U. they don't teach that facts are a point of view.

And please quit bragging about how much better educated you are than the rest of us mortals. Yes, you're elite, but why rub it in our faces?
I've done no such thing.

Mr. Smith raised the issue in one of those moments where he had nothing else to say.
And when you said that antiSemitism is the oldest form of human hatred, and that Soap Libel is credible, what did you have in mind?
Just what I said. Antisemitism is the oldest form of group hatred and the evidence for making soap from human fat at Danzig is credible.
Why don't you just concentrate on the facts?


That is what I do, and what I'm trying to get you and other deniers do. But you know few facts for the subject under discussion, and you accept the warped reasoning processes of deniers.

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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 04:44

I see, and we're supposed to ignore Belzec, Sobibor, and Maidanek?
No, geek, that's why I added tens of thousand of others. Join the human race!

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Post by Dan » 29 Dec 2002 04:47

DarExc wrote:I have seen this also about the Goerings. Hermann always turned a blind eye to his brother Alberts missions to save jews from extermnation and getting them new identities and getting them deported. I remember at my old high school a jewish guy actualy had dedicated a little wreath to Albert Goering on remembrance day and spoke well of the acts that Hermann Goering made to keep his brother out of trouble and allow him to speak on his behalf on numerous occasions. This is not to say Hermann Goering was a saint (although I believe his brother was) as there are many deaths Hermann could have prevented but did not.
I think this is a well though out position.

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