The racial features of Holocaust victims

[ThomasG]

How often could Jews or half-Jews who were tall, blonde and blue-eyed escape victimization?

Only about 10% of ethnic Germans belong to the Nordic racial type which was considered ideal.

Third Reich anthropologists knew that Jews were racially heterogenous and some of them were members of this "master race". Hans F. K. Günther who was one of the most famous National Socialist race scientists provided some examples of Nordid Jews in his work "Rassenkunde des jüdischen Volkes". I included a scan. (Note Olympic Champion Helene Meyer)

Bryan Mark Rigg has published some information in his book about "Hitler's Jewish soldiers" about the "aryanized" Jews who served in the Wehrmacht. I don't own the book but I would be glad if somebody has it in his possession and could give some numbers.

[Voice of Truth]

I think this shows the utter insanity of the persecution of the Jews on racial grounds. Many Jews look definitely European; if not blond and blue eyed (which only a minority of 'Aryans' are) then certainly brown/red haired and fair skinned. I don't think Jews can be called a 'race', as there is a fair bit of diversity between them. In my view, the Nazi anti-Semitism, despite all proclamations to the contrary, was not exclusively based on race - it was rather based on hostility towards Jewish culture, religion and way of life. Jewish 'mentality', if you like. The fact that many partial Jews accidentally escaped the death camps and even served in the German armed forces goes to show just how casually cruel the Nazi persecution was.

[Penn44]

... In my view, the Nazi anti-Semitism, despite all proclamations to the contrary, was not exclusively based on race - it was rather based on hostility towards Jewish culture, religion and way of life. Jewish 'mentality', if you like....

Don't show your ignorance, Voice of "Truth." Nazi anti-Semitism was racial-biological. In accordance with Nazi ideology, the so-called Jewish "mentality" and all its cultural manifestations stemmed from Jewish blood. Nazi ideology was racial-biological determinism.

Penn44

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[David Thompson]

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[Ryan81]

The Nazis hatred for Jews was, in my opinion, first & foremost, racial-biological. Cultural and religious factors were a secondary concern. In the same way their hatred for Gypsies, homosexuals and the mentally ill were both racial and biological.

[ThomasG]

Don't show your ignorance, Voice of "Truth." Nazi anti-Semitism was racial-biological. In accordance with Nazi ideology, the so-called Jewish "mentality" and all its cultural manifestations stemmed from Jewish blood. Nazi ideology was racial-biological determinism.

Yes, you are correct.

Eugen Fischer's "Racial origin and earlies racial history of the Hebrews":
http://www.tworca.org/RacialOriginOfJews.pdf

The Racial Biology of the Jews by Baron Otmar von Verschuer:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/DOCs/Racia ... y_Jews.doc

[Penn44]

... In my view, the Nazi anti-Semitism, despite all proclamations to the contrary, was not exclusively based on race - it was rather based on hostility towards Jewish culture, religion and way of life. Jewish 'mentality', if you like....

The Nazis hatred for Jews was, in my opinion, first & foremost, racial-biological. Cultural and religious factors were a secondary concern. In the same way their hatred for Gypsies, homosexuals and the mentally ill were both racial and biological.

Under Nazi racial ideology, there were no separation of racial-biology and cultural factors. Jewish cultural manifestations (and religion is subsumed under culture) were in the minds of Nazis racial theorists the natural consequence of Jewish “blood” – cause and effect. The correlation is linear. When considering Nazi racial theory, it is a false dichotomy to set up the separateness of the racial-biological and the resulting cultural manifestations. Under Nazi racial ideology, no one can escape the natural consequences of their “blood” – one who is born a Jew is always a Jew. No amount of assimilation into Aryan culture could change that fact. That is why the Nazis exterminated those Jews who had become assimilated and/or became Christians.

By and large the Nazis were aware that many German Jews were a racially mixed lot, and that a number of German Jews had Aryan physiological features. The Nazis realized that, in of itself, racial physiological was an inadequate tool to determine who was a Jew and who was not. The wearing of the “Yellow Star” badge was instituted in large part to overcome this visual handicap in identifying who was a Jew in public places.

While the Nazis abhorred gypsies, homosexuals, and the chronically, seriously mentally ill and genetically infirmed, the Nazis did not “hate” these groups to the same degree that they “hated” the Jews. The differences in the degree of hate, and the degree was significant, was the result of the greater fear the Nazis had for the racial destructiveness of the Jews. Within the Nazi mind, the Aryan struggle against the Jew was a life-death struggle against racial enemy that took on cosmic proportions. In the minds of most people the nature of this Nazi concept of the racial struggle between Aryan and Jew might sound overly dramatic, but in the mind of the Nazi, it was merely a statement of fact.

Penn44

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[ThomasG]

According to Bryan Martin Rigg Hitler had the authority to "aryanize" loyal Jews (especially half-Jews) who had non-Jewish physical features. Incredible, he personally inspected the photos of people with Jewish background even in 1943 when he should have dealt with more pressing matters.

See this site for pictures of the Jewish Wehrmacht soldiers:
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html

(Horst Geitner looks Orientalid, btw)

[Voice of Truth]

... In my view, the Nazi anti-Semitism, despite all proclamations to the contrary, was not exclusively based on race - it was rather based on hostility towards Jewish culture, religion and way of life. Jewish 'mentality', if you like....

Don't show your ignorance, Voice of "Truth." Nazi anti-Semitism was racial-biological. In accordance with Nazi ideology, the so-called Jewish "mentality" and all its cultural manifestations stemmed from Jewish blood. Nazi ideology was racial-biological determinism.

Penn44

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Racial-biological, but on what basis? You seem to ignore the fact that Hitler could 'Aryanise' any Jew he wished, if he was convinced that the person was not hostile and an asset to the Reich. You seem the naive and ignorant one!

[Voice of Truth]

The Nazis hatred for Jews was, in my opinion, first & foremost, racial-biological. Cultural and religious factors were a secondary concern. In the same way their hatred for Gypsies, homosexuals and the mentally ill were both racial and biological.

Indeed. But the cultural factors did matter and they did have an influence. Gypsies are a different issue altogether.

[Voice of Truth]

... In my view, the Nazi anti-Semitism, despite all proclamations to the contrary, was not exclusively based on race - it was rather based on hostility towards Jewish culture, religion and way of life. Jewish 'mentality', if you like....

The Nazis hatred for Jews was, in my opinion, first & foremost, racial-biological. Cultural and religious factors were a secondary concern. In the same way their hatred for Gypsies, homosexuals and the mentally ill were both racial and biological.

Under Nazi racial ideology, there were no separation of racial-biology and cultural factors. Jewish cultural manifestations (and religion is subsumed under culture) were in the minds of Nazis racial theorists the natural consequence of Jewish “blood” – cause and effect. The correlation is linear. When considering Nazi racial theory, it is a false dichotomy to set up the separateness of the racial-biological and the resulting cultural manifestations. Under Nazi racial ideology, no one can escape the natural consequences of their “blood” – one who is born a Jew is always a Jew. No amount of assimilation into Aryan culture could change that fact. That is why the Nazis exterminated those Jews who had become assimilated and/or became Christians.

By and large the Nazis were aware that many German Jews were a racially mixed lot, and that a number of German Jews had Aryan physiological features. The Nazis realized that, in of itself, racial physiological was an inadequate tool to determine who was a Jew and who was not. The wearing of the “Yellow Star” badge was instituted in large part to overcome this visual handicap in identifying who was a Jew in public places.

While the Nazis abhorred gypsies, homosexuals, and the chronically, seriously mentally ill and genetically infirmed, the Nazis did not “hate” these groups to the same degree that they “hated” the Jews. The differences in the degree of hate, and the degree was significant, was the result of the greater fear the Nazis had for the racial destructiveness of the Jews. Within the Nazi mind, the Aryan struggle against the Jew was a life-death struggle against racial enemy that took on cosmic proportions. In the minds of most people the nature of this Nazi concept of the racial struggle between Aryan and Jew might sound overly dramatic, but in the mind of the Nazi, it was merely a statement of fact.

Penn44

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All you say is true. But nevertheless, there were profound contradictions between who was a Jew, according to Nazi ideology, and who wasn't. Many - probably most - half Jews survived the war. But others did not. What I am at a loss to understand is whether the Nazis had a strict criteria for deciding one's Jewishness. My opinion is that they did not - in borderline cases, it was a matter of luck.

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[Penn44]

Racial-biological, but on what basis? You seem to ignore the fact that Hitler could 'Aryanise' any Jew he wished, if he was convinced that the person was not hostile and an asset to the Reich.

Can you name any full Jews whom Hitler Aryanized? How many?

Penn44

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[Penn44]

All you say is true. But nevertheless, there were profound contradictions between who was a Jew, according to Nazi ideology, and who wasn't. Many - probably most - half Jews survived the war. But others did not. What I am at a loss to understand is whether the Nazis had a strict criteria for deciding one's Jewishness. My opinion is that they did not - in borderline cases, it was a matter of luck.

Can you provide any sources for your claims? Your speculations are quite doubtful.

Penn44

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[Mr Holmes]

Can you name any full Jews whom Hitler Aryanized? How many?

Penn44

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I'm sorry if the following question seems out of line with the current discussion's focus, but Penn's post reminded of a question I wanted to ask a while back, but had in the meantime forgotten all about the story.

In Jochen von Lang's biography on Bormann, he gave an account of the following story ( as far as I can ascertain this took place in the beginning of 1943, but I may be mistaken):

A somewhat bizarre situation evolved when Bormann was informed that a check into the antecedents of Hitler's dietary cook had revealed that one of her grandmothers was Jewish. The excitement was all the greater since Hitler had often praised his cook's culinary art and, on occassion, had even invited her to the dinner table. Everyone agreed that a quarter Jewess must not cook for the Führer. Yet, when Bormann brought this up, Hitler shied away from a decision. Bormann the steward mailed her the fatal letter while she was away on vacation. But that, again, did not suit Hitler. He was not going to do without his good vegetable soups. And so the dismissal was rescinded.

p.196

Does anyone know who the lady was? Was the order rescinded on an entirely permament basis? What of her citizenship status? Or was this taken away from her but was granted a special provision for 'services rendered'? Indeed what became of her after the war (if she survived)?

Another such story (same book) of arbitrary decisions concerning individual Jews, comes in connection with Richard Strauss' daughter-in-law. My question in this regard, and in keeping with Penn's abovementioned question, is did Hitler have anything to do with the protection of the daughter-in-law, and was she "Aryanised"? The passage as von Lang has it:

It was because of such rigid principles [ie. Mischlinge and German second degree marriages and the 'rights' of their offspring -- my note] that, in January 1944, he forbade all Party leaders to continue "personal relations" with the composer Richard Strauss. Although the maestro had never voiced political opposition to the regime and for a time had even served as a willing cultural symbol, he had in the course of his artistic career commissioned a number of Jews to write librettos, and his son was married to a Jew (who, incidentally, as the great man's daughter-in-law, was not harmed and survived the war). If Bormann had had his way, Strauss's eightieth birthday in June 1944 would have passed without official recognition. But Baldur von Schirach, who always fancied himself a sponsor of the muses and who in cultural matters occassionally diverged from the Party line, ignored all official instructions and, travelling to Bavaria on a good-will mission, invited Strauss to his palace residence in Vienna for a ceremony in his honor. "He kissed the hand of a Jewess," snorted Bormann.

p, 201.

As always, any information received on these two instances, would be most appreciated.

Nick


Source: Jochen von Lang, The Secretary: Martin Bormann: The Man Who Manipulated Hitler Trans. by Christa Armstrong and Peter White, Random House, New York, 1979