Alleged rapes, massacres, transfers in Palestine in 1948.

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Sergey
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Alleged rapes, massacres, transfers in Palestine in 1948.

#1

Post by Sergey » 20 Oct 2007, 15:24

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... ntrassID=2

Benny Morris, Israeli historian and writer answer the question asked by Haaretz journalist
Benny Morris, in the month ahead the new version of your book on the birth of the Palestinian refugee problem is due to be published. Who will be less pleased with the book - the Israelis or the Palestinians?

"The revised book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.

"At the same time, it turns out that there was a series of orders issued by the Arab Higher Committee and by the Palestinian intermediate levels to remove children, women and the elderly from the villages. So that on the one hand, the book reinforces the accusation against the Zionist side, but on the other hand it also proves that many of those who left the villages did so with the encouragement of the Palestinian leadership itself."

According to your new findings, how many cases of Israeli rape were there in 1948?

"About a dozen. In Acre four soldiers raped a girl and murdered her and her father. In Jaffa, soldiers of the Kiryati Brigade raped one girl and tried to rape several more. At Hunin, which is in the Galilee, two girls were raped and then murdered. There were one or two cases of rape at Tantura, south of Haifa. There was one case of rape at Qula, in the center of the country. At the village of Abu Shusha, near Kibbutz Gezer [in the Ramle area] there were four female prisoners, one of whom was raped a number of times. And there were other cases. Usually more than one soldier was involved. Usually there were one or two Palestinian girls. In a large proportion of the cases the event ended with murder. Because neither the victims nor the rapists liked to report these events, we have to assume that the dozen cases of rape that were reported, which I found, are not the whole story. They are just the tip of the iceberg."

According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

"The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

"That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres."

South
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#2

Post by South » 20 Oct 2007, 16:54

Dohbrayuh ootra Sergey,

As soon as I read "entered the village with all guns blazing" I knew history was not being written in this new book.

Haganah was only 1 -although the main- unit forming the later IDF.

It's interesting that the quoted Benny Morris meanders between the terms "Arabs" and "Palestinians". Note that the newspaper JERUSALEM POST was named the PALESTINE POST until 1950. The political block called "Palestinians" was not developed until after circa 1964, less the late King Hussain of Jordan referring back to post WWII as his Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan being the land of the "Palestinians".

Benny Morris has a well established bias and an agenda.

Relying on Benny Morris to learn about the eastern Mediteranian wars is like depending on Stalin's man in China, Borodin, to learn about China's politics.

A very easy acid test in re Benny Morris' thesis is to ask WHY there are still "refugee" camps in the area.

Beside the "guns blazing", introducing rapes into an area indirectly involved in the US Presidental campaign (the US SecState is involved in the race), is an indicator of non-historical matters involved.

I vaguely recall Benny Morris once taught in metro-Washingotn, D.C.

Baka,

Bob


Sergey
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#3

Post by Sergey » 20 Oct 2007, 19:32

South wrote:Dohbrayuh ootra Sergey,

As soon as I read "entered the village with all guns blazing" I knew history was not being written in this new book.

Haganah was only 1 -although the main- unit forming the later IDF.

It's interesting that the quoted Benny Morris meanders between the terms "Arabs" and "Palestinians". Note that the newspaper JERUSALEM POST was named the PALESTINE POST until 1950. The political block called "Palestinians" was not developed until after circa 1964, less the late King Hussain of Jordan referring back to post WWII as his Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan being the land of the "Palestinians".

Benny Morris has a well established bias and an agenda.

Relying on Benny Morris to learn about the eastern Mediteranian wars is like depending on Stalin's man in China, Borodin, to learn about China's politics.

A very easy acid test in re Benny Morris' thesis is to ask WHY there are still "refugee" camps in the area.

Beside the "guns blazing", introducing rapes into an area indirectly involved in the US Presidental campaign (the US SecState is involved in the race), is an indicator of non-historical matters involved.

I vaguely recall Benny Morris once taught in metro-Washingotn, D.C.

Baka,

Bob
Hi Bob!

Thank you for kind replay. Of course, the discussed theme should be regarded in historical context.

I have an impression that mr.Morris is a serious historian and his information is trustworthly.

Warmest regards from Moscow!

snpol
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Re: Alleged rapes, massacres, transfers in Palestine in 1948.

#4

Post by snpol » 31 Oct 2021, 19:36

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura
The British controlled the Haifa port area until April 23, 1948.[45] The rest of the city fell to the Carmeli Brigade of the Haganah commanded by Moshe Carmel in Operation Misparayim. After the fall of Haifa, Arab villages on the slopes of Mount Carmel began attacking Jewish traffic on the main road to Haifa. The Alexandroni Brigade was tasked with reducing the Mount Carmel pocket.
Israeli journalist Amir Gilat published an article regarding a massacre in Tantura in Ma'ariv[41] which was mainly based on a master's thesis submitted to the University of Haifa by graduate student, Theodore Katz. In a paper on The Exodus of the Arabs from the Villages at the foot of Mount Carmel, Katz said Israeli forces killed 240 Arabs from Tantura during the 1947–1949 Palestine war in 1948. Katz did not use the word massacre, although other scholars were quick to use this term.[59][60] The Alexandroni veterans protested, and Gilat wrote a follow-up piece including their denial that a massacre had occurred.[52]
The historian Ilan Pappé supported Katz and his thesis, and has challenged the Israeli veterans to take him to court, claiming he has evidence that the massacre occurred.[41][65][66] In a 2001 article in the Journal of Palestine Studies, Pappé defended the use of oral history with reference to the USA. He pointed out that that history was obtained by Katz, not only from Palestinian villagers, but also from Israeli soldiers.
In 2004, Israeli historian Benny Morris extensively reviewed the Tantura controversy...
Morris underlined the fact that in interviews conducted by himself and by the whistle-blower Amil Gilat, all refugees confirmed that a massacre had taken place, while all IDF veterans denied it. Regarding the latter, Morris describes what he calls “troubling hints”, such as a diary by an Alexandroni soldier, Tulik Makovsky, in which he wrote “… that our boys know the craft of murder quite well, especially boys whose relatives the Arabs had murdered... or those harmed by Hitler [they are the same fascists]. They took their private revenge, and avenged our comrades who had died at their hands, against the snipers”. Morris also noted that, given the political sensitivities at the time, the word khabala may have been used as a euphemism for a massacre.[52]
There is an interesting question in this context. Is there a connection between the Holocaust and Israeli war crimes?

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