All victims of the holocaust

[bf109 emil]

[This post was moved from the "Number of victims of the holocaust" reference thread at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=101471 and recaptioned by the moderator - DT.]

Does this thread refer to the victims from German inflicted violence, or does it include the Chinese army at Nanking, after surrendering and taken POW's, Allied POW's, Soviet commisar purges or does the area and number reflect victims east of the Volga to the waters of the English channel...

Holocaust...the term conjures up images taught or maybe mis-taught to perceive Non-combative personal, Victims of Nazi Germany only, and those deemed to have perished by CO2 or Prussic Acid (zyklon b)

There is no denying the holocaust, as my daughter, married to a US serviceman stationed in Germany has visited at my urging the number of places to have commited these atrocities.

Jewish victims and holocaust are yes true, but if term holocaust/genocide can be labelled by other ethnic victims of Germany, ie gays, gypsies,slavs, jehova witnesses (albeit where releashed from camps like auschwitz if they renounced and signed away there faith) and proven in court and backed by the UN...shouldn't they be granted land to ensure their survival, beliefs and ways of life if proven in a world court or U.N.
for the number i have seen on this thread as to deaths is mostly German caused/murdered, where as number by Japan has been perceived to be greater in number, as such number used by russia in work camps in siberia, commisar purges of SS Germans,Italians,Romanians, returning POW's to soviet union after armistice or german surrender

and do we count the victims starved while in Russian captivity and Japan as being holocaust victims as well as the list from earlier threads include Soviet prisoners held in German captivity...THE WHOLE THING OR WAR WAS A FORM OF HOLOCAUST, BE IT DEATH IN LONDON FROM DOODLE-BUG, SAILOR FALLING VICTIM TO A SHARK WHILE IN THE PACIFIC, OR DIRECTLY MARCHED INTO A FIRING SQUAD, OR SHOT TRYING TO RETURN FROM A FAILED CHARGE BY ONES OWN COUNTRYMEN....I APOLOGIZE NOW... BUT TELL THE MOTHER OF A SOLDIER STARVED TO DEATH HE WASN'T A HOLOCAUST VICTIM IF IN A JAPANESE PRISON, BUT THE SON OF A RUSSIAN MOTHER WHOM DIED IN GERMANY IS???

[Jonathan Harrison]

A victim of the Holocaust must have died as a direct result of policies inflicted by Nazi Germany and/or its allies. Technically, this should arguably include victims of Japan but, in reality, the victim count is usually restricted to Europe, because Japan's genocidal practices preceded, and were independent of, Germany's and because Japan did not proceed from an antisemitic racial model. People who died as a result of Soviet retaliatory measures or anti-Axis military measures were not Holocaust victims, but could be considered victims of genocide in some cases (e.g. the Volga Germans).

A brief answer to the OP would therefore be that you are conflating the terms Holocaust and genocide. For sure, the Holocaust victims discussed in other threads do not include all victims of genocidal acts carried out by WWII combatants between 1939 and 1945, but nobody on this forum has ever claimed that they did, to my knowledge.

[bf109 emil]

I understand, but the title of thread should be titled differently..
as Victims trefer to a numerous spectrum of people, rather then a narrow or singular group, for to say only Jewish victims are deemed countable is very labeling, or bias...perhaps title can be changed to jewish people killed by means of the holocaust, rather then all victims

[sallyg]

I understand, but the title of thread should be titled differently..
as Victims trefer to a numerous spectrum of people, rather then a narrow or singular group, for to say only Jewish victims are deemed countable is very labeling, or bias...perhaps title can be changed to jewish people killed by means of the holocaust, rather then all victims

If you wish to count the number of people who died in WWII feel free to do so. It's has been done and the numbers are revised as new evidence comes to light.

However, since WWII the term "Holocaust" has taken on a singular meaning, the genocide of the Jewish people by Nazi Germany. Do not expect the bulk of the rest of the world to modify their language.