Churchill's Revenge Squads

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JTG
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#61

Post by JTG » 20 Apr 2010, 23:54

YES.

By simple default in the terms that YOU have given no further proofs
.
John Germain

Psm1975
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#62

Post by Psm1975 » 28 Oct 2010, 22:57

Firstly Hi.

This is my first post, but can throw a bit of information regarding Peter Mason your way. I was the armourer at the museum where Masons items are now housed.

Peter Mason contacted the Combined Military Services Museum stating that he had a number of items to sell from his past. At first, his claims were regarded with scepticism but after numerous correspondence, we decided to do some investigation into him.
He had written a book 'secret assassin' detailing his expolits and had gotten it published without getting permission of the Uk government. (I can't recall who SF operatives have to go through for this). As a result of this, he was banned from the UK and his pension revoked.
Other than that, we were unable to establish much more about Mason.
We made enquiries about Mason through one of our government contacts and the next day we were visited by two men. I do not know who they were but they knew EVERYTHING about the director of the museum. They were polite to us and were interested in why we had been enquiring after Mason. We explained that we had been offered some of his equipment which they weren't phased by. I got the impression that they mainly wanted to know if he was in the country. They wouldn't give us any further information on Mason but did confirm that he was who he was claiming to be. We put a lot of 'events' to them that he had mentioned in his book and they confirmed that they were all true.

We shipped a lot of Masons items over from Canada and I went over there and brought one shipment back myself. He and his wife Prue were very nice, hospitable people who were willing to spend time with me sharing some of their history. They also had a LOT of firearms (on licence) that are banned in Canada!

Mason owned a training camp that the CIA sent a lot of their People to for CQB training but they pulled out after some journalists revealed its location. I do not know if a new one got started up as when i mentioned it to him in emails, I'd never get that replied to. I'm sure the CIA verified his claims before employing him though. Thirds were articles about this in some of the papers when he first came public.

Mason had a lot of his items on display in a local museum until we bought them from him. He also had on loan to the CIA museum a few items. These were sent straight to us from their museum....

There's always a cynic in every discussion. Yes this is my first post on this forum but I hope I have put across a few points for you guys to discuss.

In the meantime, I'll get back to reading my signed copy of 'secret assassin' for the umpteenth time. ;-)

Paul


Handy
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#63

Post by Handy » 23 Feb 2011, 07:11

Hello everyone, I just thought I would comment on Peter Masons Life. First of all im just a normal guy that has done some dealings with Peter just today. I two have questioned his authenticity with his claim,s and today became a believer about him and his book. I also had the chance to meet his wife today and she is something else much like him self. He has shown me much proof about his past and I could have sat their for hours. He lives a very quiet life now and looks after his sick wife. I wish I could tell you everything he was able to tell me and show me, but its not my place to say but it was the most crazy and exciting things I have ever seen. Im 33 years old and got lost on his property so much to see. Im going out to finish a deal with him early next week and plan on asking him If I could catalog his documents and property. I don't think this will really convince anyone but I thought i would just say its real and see enuf proof for me.
thanks

UMachine
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#64

Post by UMachine » 23 Feb 2011, 17:26

Does any member know if Josef Galinsky was British born?

UMachine
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#65

Post by UMachine » 24 Feb 2011, 21:44

Any country/person who had access to the records could have sent agents for some action during the war.The sifting could have gone on for some years after all POWS had been released.

WhiteFox
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#66

Post by WhiteFox » 02 Jul 2011, 19:19

David Thompson wrote:Let's see some sourced proof before we get into a discussion. The story appears to be another version of the "Jewish Avengers" tale, with a Winston Churchill twist to appeal to gullible readers -- the kind who might be unaware that Churchill held no position in the UK government from Jul 1945 until 1951.
I have a source for the "Jewish Avengers" tale, though it doesn't involve Churchill. Moshe Tavor, a who later participated in bringing Eichmann to Israel, participated in these squads and has been interviewed at least twice on the topic. Note that these "Jewish brigades" were part of the British army during the war, before the revenge phase. This may have have been the (weak) link to Churchill.

(Source: Translation of article from Yedihot Achronot, one of the major Israeli newspapers.)
http://www.historama.com/online-resourc ... acker.html

The BBC Documentary, Auschwitz: Liberation and Revenge, starting at about :50:
http://youtu.be/bxZQg03ipyU

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HaEn
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#67

Post by HaEn » 02 Jul 2011, 21:08

Quote: He said: "All the SS were tattooed with their number.Some used battery acid to try and burn it off and conceal themselves. If you saw a big scar, you knew who they were. They would fold up when they were shown the evidence." en quote.
Were do they get this inane "info" ??? The Waffen SS had NO NUMBER tattooed under their arm. Only the bloodgroup they belonged to, so a medic could match it sooner on the battlefield.
If this is a sample of "testimony" or "journalism" i am inclined to disbelieve the whole affair.
NEXT: After we (Waffen SS soldiers) surrendered, we were told that Churchill had a secret plan to disarm the SS troops in the west, move them to Germany proper, and reorganize them as a "defense line aginst Bolsjevism". As a result many of us cleaned our weapons, and even labeled them so we coul get "our" own weapon back when we had arrived in Germany.
Much later I have read the pro and cons of this plan, but looking at Churchill's profile i tend to believe it still. He hated Communism more than Fascism or Nazism. This in contrast to Eisenhower's intense hate for everything German. ( result of Americanizing his name from Eissenhauer to Eisenhower ? (just a thought)
Oh well.
History is written by the victors .
HN

UMachine
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#68

Post by UMachine » 03 Jul 2011, 01:34

These avengers might even have been citizens of foreign countries that received info on who to target,they might not have been pros.They could target any soldier of certain armies just for being a former member of that organization living in said country.

WhiteFox
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#69

Post by WhiteFox » 03 Jul 2011, 02:03

HaEn wrote: Were do they get this inane "info" ??? The Waffen SS had NO NUMBER tattooed under their arm. Only the bloodgroup they belonged to, so a medic could match it sooner on the battlefield.
If this is a sample of "testimony" or "journalism" i am inclined to disbelieve the whole affair.
Where is this quote from? It's not from the Yediot story, nor from the documentary I posted.

The whole affair being the revenge stories, or the Holocaust as a whole? If the former, why does an error that concerns a minor detail (number vs. blood group) render the whole story false?

If the latter, I thought revisionists like the revenge stories. If the Holocaust is all a fabrication, then such revenge missions add to the martyrdom of the SS and the Nazis as a whole.

David Thompson
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#70

Post by David Thompson » 03 Jul 2011, 02:46

WhiteFox -- You asked:
Where is this quote from? It's not from the Yediot story, nor from the documentary I posted.
It's from the London Sunday Times of 28 Dec 1997, quoted in the post by "Truthteller" at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1212720, which you can find on the first page of this thread.

You also asked:
The whole affair being the revenge stories, or the Holocaust as a whole? If the former, why does an error that concerns a minor detail (number vs. blood group) render the whole story false?
Please read the rest of the thread. Mr. Mason's story has no significant details which can be confirmed, and some which are demonstrably false.

You concluded:
If the latter, I thought revisionists like the revenge stories. If the Holocaust is all a fabrication, then such revenge missions add to the martyrdom of the SS and the Nazis as a whole.
Our rules (posted for all to see at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962) forbid posts which make personal remarks about other members, so please avoid the practice in the future. In any event, HaEn is not a "revisionist," but an original.

WhiteFox
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#71

Post by WhiteFox » 03 Jul 2011, 11:17

David Thompson wrote:You also asked:
The whole affair being the revenge stories, or the Holocaust as a whole? If the former, why does an error that concerns a minor detail (number vs. blood group) render the whole story false?
Understood. I thought this was in reference to Tabor's Jewish Brigade.
David Thompson wrote:In any event, HaEn is not a "revisionist," but an original.
OK, that's good to know.
David Thompson wrote:You concluded:
If the latter, I thought revisionists like the revenge stories. If the Holocaust is all a fabrication, then such revenge missions add to the martyrdom of the SS and the Nazis as a whole.
Our rules (posted for all to see at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962) forbid posts which make personal remarks about other members, so please avoid the practice in the future. In any event, HaEn is not a "revisionist," but an original.
I read those rules when I joined, and I actually worked to craft the above paragraph in a way that that, I had thought, did not insult the person to whom I was responding. I'd like to understand the issue so that I can avoid causing offense.Most of the stories I have seen on this topic were on revisionist forums, so the statement seemed factual. So is it the term "revisionist" that is offensive?

David Thompson
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#72

Post by David Thompson » 03 Jul 2011, 15:46

WhiteFox -- You asked:
Most of the stories I have seen on this topic were on revisionist forums, so the statement seemed factual. So is it the term "revisionist" that is offensive?
Thank you for your polite response. I will try to answer it in the same spirit.

(1) Our rules strongly discourage personal remarks about other posters, whether they are offensive or "chummy." The reason is that such comments tend to produce flame wars, cliques, unnecessary distractions, and/or other undesirable results which inhibit reasoned discussion. Were the term "revisionist" applied to the forum or myself, I would take offense. Furthermore, the context in which you placed the remark -- ". . . revisionists like the revenge stories. If the Holocaust is all a fabrication, then such revenge missions add to the martyrdom of the SS and the Nazis as a whole." -- seems calculated to offend.

(2) The issue of "revisionism," or whether a poster is a "revisionist," has little to do with the subject matter of the thread -- whether or not Mr. Churchill authorized or approved "revenge squads" which murdered persons suspected of war crimes after the war. Consequently, the remark is an off-topic distraction.

UMachine
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#73

Post by UMachine » 08 Jul 2011, 03:19

Unless these avengers lived or returned to Israel they wouldn't have talked about it.The story from Moshe Tavor sounds like nonsense designed to make the families of H victims feel better.It would all be under the table and the only place you might hear something would be from a former soldier who realized he was being pursued.

Joel Michael
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#74

Post by Joel Michael » 02 Dec 2014, 05:31

It's a mystery why some consider (a) Churchill's SAS hit squads and (b) the Jewish Brigade revenge squads to be fabrications. Both groups are spoken of by some on this forum with great skepticism and even disbelief.

Several years ago I posted about viewing a Military Channel special in which men from the SAS talked at length about going into the prison camps holding German prisoners after the war and dispatching members of the SS. Precise techniques and procedures were discussed. My statements were treated with disbelief. Well, I have now just viewed on television a somewhat similar presentation about the Jewish Brigade Revenge squads (also spoken of with disbelief here) Same format as the program dealing with the SAS hit squads.

Date of viewing: December 1, 2014. Channel: AHC. (American Heroes Channel) This is a Discovery Channel. Contact can be made with this TV Channel to ascertain its validity.

Actual participants went into detail about successful and unsuccessful post-war killings and attempted killings of Nazis. Some victims were named, some not.

The following is Wikipedia's reference to Moshe Tavor's involvement in the Jewish Brigade's hit squads:

Moshe Tavor (Hebrew: משה תבור‎) (1917–6 May 2006), the second of three brothers. He was a member of the Jewish Brigade, a unit of the British Army that fought the Germans in Italy in 1944-45. Tavor and others in the unit resolved to take justice into their own hands and pay back the Germans for the atrocities the German army had committed. Using whatever information they could find, they tracked down Germans who, they believed, had participated in killing Jews, took them to isolated places and executed them.

In 1960, Moshe Tavor was part of the Israeli team that kidnapped former SS Lieutenant Colonel Adolf Eichmann, who was hiding in Argentina. Eichmann, who had coordinated much of the "Final Solution," was brought to Israel, where he was placed on trial and convicted for crimes against the Jewish people, sentenced to death, and executed on 1 June 1962.

Tavor died on 6 May 2006.


Denial of the post WWII death squads contradicts history.

flakbait
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Re: Churchill's Revenge Squads

#75

Post by flakbait » 02 Dec 2014, 08:45

Believe it IS historical record that during the summer and fall of 1945 and especially into and during the winter of 1945-46 that many thousands of former German service members died in POW camps, due to outbreaks of illnesses, starvation, being worked to death, as well as poor medical treatment. Several camps in western European countries with higher security were set aside for the hard core Nazi and Waffen SS former soldiers, whom as a group suffered significantly worse than their fellow POWs. Can`t say that this was a deliberate policy. Know that the camps in the Soviet Union were set up to just help kill off as many German former invaders as humanly possible with extreme cold, illnesses, starvation, utter brutality and little hope of escape while being used to clear left over mine fields, repairing rail roads and building debris and other dangerous very hard labor. If remember correctly the Soviet Union finally allowed the last former German soldiers to go back to Germany in the mid 1960s by which time only 1 out of every 15 who invaded Russia ever returned. A sizable percentage of those returning were physical and mental wreckage, which may be considered by some to be poetic justice...

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