Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

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Penn44
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by Penn44 » 12 Jul 2008 12:58

David Thompson wrote:Penn44 -- You wrote:
Do you believe everything you read from a convicted Nazi war criminal?
Where did you get your information that SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Hubert Meyer was a convicted war criminal?
My misprint.

Penn44

.

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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by David Thompson » 13 Jul 2008 22:51

As I said earlier in this thread, at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8#p1228038
In this thread, I'd like to stick to a discussion of the alleged "take no prisoners" order. I'm also interested in the quote which started this thread:
Kurt Meyer reported what happened in the handling of the German prisoners of war by the Canadian troops:
"On the 7th of June I was given a notebook taken from the body of a dead Canadian captain. In addition to handwritten orders, the notes stated that 'no prisoners were to be taken'. Some Canadian prisoners were asked to verify these instructions...they confirmed orders that if prisoners impeded the advance, they were not to be taken"

and whether this is something that Kurt Meyer said, and if so, where? Could the Canadian documentary scriptwriter have confused Kurt Meyer with Hubert Meyer? And if so, why was the "no prisoners were to be taken if they might impede the attacking Allied forces" part of the quote omitted?
This strafing tangent is off-topic, and I'm getting annoyed at you, Penn44, for unnecessarily personalizing this digression from the subject under discussion. Even if the issue was whether allied pilots deliberately strafed civilians -- which in this thread it isn't -- quibbling over the details of a translated description adds nothing to the discussion, nor does it tend toward a resolution of the issue being discussed. Furthermore, invidious references to "the Nazi Meyer" and "Finnish examples of UFO abductions" fall well below the standards our readers expect of this forum.

Further off-topic posts will be deleted.

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Scharf
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by Scharf » 13 Jul 2008 23:06

8O 8O 8O
Sry David, but I have to say that man is incredible, I mean Penn. I know my aircraft-post was off-topic, but I don't get this. First man asks sources, and then sources mean nothing.( ufo-abductions etc :cry: )
I take this a little bit personally, as a finn....finnish sources are not accurate. :? :? :?
But it is so easy to deny all this, like aircraft hunting civilians, when there has been no modern war in home country.

David, you can delete this, if you want so...I don't write in this topic anymore.

Scharf

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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by David Thompson » 13 Jul 2008 23:26

Scharf -- You wrote:
David, you can delete this, if you want so...I don't write in this topic anymore.
I'll let Penn44 see it first, just in case he doesn't realize how problematic his behavior has become.

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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by David Thompson » 14 Jul 2008 01:30

An opinion post from ahf, which added nothing of factual interest to this discussion of alleged Canadian "take no prisoners" orders, was deleted by the moderator pursuant to previous thread warnings at at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8#p1228038 and http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1229845 - DT.

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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by David Thompson » 15 Jul 2008 00:38

The posts dealing with strafing attacks have been moved to the "Atrocities of 12. SS-Panzer-Division 'Hitlerjugend'"
thread at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=109598

klambie
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by klambie » 25 Jul 2008 03:56

I have posted the affadavits of Maj Roberts and two OR's of the Regina Rifles related to the action at La Villenueve on this forum:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6353

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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by David Thompson » 25 Jul 2008 12:33

Thanks, klambie.

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gunslinger
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by gunslinger » 25 Jul 2008 14:43

If this is about truth finding, i just dont know.
Its this, against another one"s word, sworn under oath, people will tell you everything under oath.
There is to much emotion involved to get an clear picture, as i have read al sort of statements on forums.
Let me say it did hapen, shooting of pow's, i do believe that, its a part of war , we dont like but it hapens.
Howmany, at what place, and under what of circumstances, Who was there to tell?..you? me?
why we wanna know so badly, because its horror?? for justice ? c'mon
I saw horror on CNN when an US Marine shot ,point blank range an unarmed and wounded iraki right in front of the camera.
There is a lot to tell about human behavior and shooting of pow's but i,m no PhD.
I do believe there was no official written order for shooting pow's, not by the Canadians and not by the 12HJ, why?
I saw to many photo's of POW in good condition on both sides.
It did happen, and on both sides, thats war, it always happens.


my 2cents
regards

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seaburn
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by seaburn » 27 Oct 2013 11:47

WO20841386661.jpg
This document caught my eye from a file I received recently. As you can see, its a 'tapping' file whereby captured German POWs were secretly recorded. The conversation regarding the HJ is of interest as it shows that the story of 'The Canadian take no prisoners' had gone around the various units by mid July 44. While of course this is no proof that such an order ever existed, I think the fact that it was being talked about at this time( that is before any trials) is quite interesting. I'm sharing it here for any members who have a particular interest in this subject as an additional perspective to their studies.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by seaburn on 27 Oct 2013 14:47, edited 2 times in total.

history1
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by history1 » 27 Oct 2013 13:05

Seaburn,
the file is not readable - just it´s head line. Far too small size of the photo, IMHO.
Regards

history1
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by history1 » 27 Oct 2013 14:58

Thanks, much better now ;-)

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Annelie
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by Annelie » 27 Oct 2013 15:07

Seaburn, thankyou for posting.

Such orders I wouldn't think be in records or print somewhere? But, this does open up that
it did take place even if it was an a very small scale.

I do believe the Canadian Veteran that used to post here probably now deceased
wasn't making up stories when he said he had orders not to take prisoners.
He more than some had personal reasons for having no problems with the order.

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seaburn
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by seaburn » 27 Oct 2013 15:20

I think the date of Mid July lacks the punch that a recording made in the first two weeks of June would have. By mid July the Canadians and HJ were well used to facing each other and things would no doubt have escalated, with rumour and counter accusations being made by both sides. The evidence is proven that the Canadian POWs were being killed within the first couple of days of combat. The interesting point for me is that this story is told exactly the way the Germans who went on trial for War Crimes in Normandy claimed was the truth.

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Reader3000
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Re: Canadian Orders "Take No Prisoners"

Post by Reader3000 » 27 Oct 2013 17:13

Just to add as a sidenote here: Either in Reynolds' Steel Inferno or from (biased?) Hubert Meyer's history of the 12th ss division there's a passage somewhere that a rumor/story about a Canadian unit was spread even well before the invasion about their fame of not taking prisoners. That maybe added to the already on the edge attitude of the Russian front veterans.

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