[quote="Caldric"]
What a bunch of complete utter nonsense, I find it amazing that someone with such childish vieuws and uneducated, simply ignorant, perspectives finds the misplaced arrogance to whine about the same contentless issues over and over again.
'Germany,
Military shoots murders and rapes kills anything they do not agree with... Here is a pictural history for you folks, since reading does not seem to hold much usefullness for some, or they doubt and are skeptics.'
Laughing out loud. The above statement, as written by you, caldric, contains about as much factual issues as an empty patatoe sack. I would like to see some examples of those 'military shooting and raping everything they do not agree with'. I always tought rape and murder were part of the Ami culture, but I must have been misguided all that time.
'Japanese were hardly innocent, I do not remember these innocent Japanese yelling for the innocent Chinese and other Asians while their army was slaughtering wholesale, or carrying out experiments.'
More laughing. So, what you are telling, is that the Japanese deserved to die, end of line? Well, I would be very interested in hearing what you mean by, first of all, 'yelling', and provide me examples of 'carrying out experiments'. That an army tends to slaughter is pretty common, we call that a war. If you look at what happened to General George Custer and his 650 cavalrists, you will understand what it means to be slaughtered. In this case, slaughtered by the rightful and true inhabitans of America, who were defending themselves against an Army suddenly deciding to participate in ethnical cleansing. What does that tell us about your morals?
'Nor do I remember the innocent Germans yelling for the innocent people being burned by the thousands as ash fell down on their homes.'
Again, more interesting points. From you, we learn that Germans were not innocent after all. I would be very interested in seeing that in cold hard facts, Ami. Also, ashes falling down on their homes, that is amazing. Do you have any matching amazing evidence for that, or do you just like to sell your cheap lies over the Internet?
'But I give you some where destroyed.'
Yes, some. One or two perhaps. Maybe three, right? You better come up with some information about those 'some'.
'Both got what they asked for, War, and it was brought to them, innocent or not their form of government brought it to them not the US and allies. '
Another vulgar, tasteless and obscene remark from an Ami, the only people in the world who have the monopoly over acting as disgusting swines. I would be highly interested in learning how the German people got what they wanted, and I would even more interested in how Germany brought war to Amiland. The hilarious thing about the kind of statements caldric makes is that he is 100% behind the fundamentalists who caused 11.9.01 to take place. That is admirable, that an Ami at least supports that countries get what they ask for, and it is even more correct of him to agree with mass Ami death. I hereby call upon caldric to get in the nearest plane and take a dive into some shopping market.
The Standartenführer is looking forward into seeing caldric's response, as he can chuckle some more.
German POWs
Re: re
Yes I have read a lot about it, it is obvious you have not. And you know their perspective huh, that's pretty stupid remark, actually your whole paragraph is pretty stupid? Some books I can recommend, Kempeitai tops the list.What are talking about you moron? What the fuck do you know about the Japanese civilian perspective of war? Fuck all. I'd wager. Have you even read anything about it? How can you say that the average Japanese civilian working in Tokyo or Hiroshima wasn't as innocent as someone working in a Detroit car factory or a food-processing plan in Berkshire? What say did the average Jap have concerning military affairs overseas? None is the answer you're looking for. The average Japanese civilian was fed a tissue of propaganda concerning the Asian wars by their government, just like Americans.
I suggest Rape of Nanking here, perhaps you would learn something for yourself instead of mocking others, since you are just babbling on about non-sense. Did you know the Japanese press use to publish weekly stories about two officers in China, the competition was over who could cut the most heads off. Should read the book, ignorance is bliss, but the Japanese were not ignorant, they would love for you to think that, perhaps you should look to see what they teach themselves these days about the war.Again what are you talking about? How can you remember something when you werent even there. Or are you 80 yrs old. At least that would explain the senility of your posts. How do you know that there were protests against Army actions in China or Asia? How do you know what the average Japanese person knew about their country's wars? Many Japanese people only heard their Emperor for the first time in 1945. There was no TV in the 30's and 40's, no independent news programs, no ability for political opposition. How are the Japanese civilian population supposed to really know what was going on. Stop and think, or perhaps learn to think. The same goes for your incredibly simplistic and unknowledgeable comment about wartime German civilian population. Your idiotic post displays a staggering ignorance about civilian affairs during WWII.
No ignorance here as I stated there were few Natives left by 1783. I can point you to some good sources if you want to broaden your limited view and knowledge of the issue.Your country was made up of European powers, or perhaps you are as ignorant of your own history as you are of others countries? The US was formed from these same powers.
LOL if you know the UN has the sanctions then why blame it all on the US? Because you need someone to blame it on, do not blame it on the person who is guilty of it to start with, just BIG BAD AMERICA, boo freaking hoo. Speaking of ignorance, must be bliss.Did I say that the sanctions were not imposed on Iraq? Your convincing me that you cannot read very well. The Sanctions on the civilian population constitutes one of the worse crimes of the 20th Century. The US starts yet another Century with a arm length list of attrocities.
I would like to see some facts on this, and I want to see the proof that the US was the only aggressor and that they should be held solely liable for it, such as your radical left wing Chomsky reference I am sure you can find something with little more credence. Your close-minded and ignorant attempt to parrot idiots who write garbage on the Internet is pathetic. You should start thinking for yourself once in a while it may do you some good.I'm surprised you even know that. The US war in Afghanistan was waged with such contempt for civilian life that at least 3,767 civilians died under their ill placed bombs.
I doubt I will be reading this fine choice of authors you gave me. I think I will stick to more unbiased writings, I would recommend you do the same.
Last edited by Caldric on 22 Mar 2002, 21:02, edited 1 time in total.
Stafu,
Rape, murder, theft, torture and corruption were very much a part of the German millitary culture during the occupation of Poland. There is a mountain of evidence to prove this. Would you like some more examples? I have dates, times, places and names. 8)
Rape, murder, theft, torture and corruption were very much a part of the German millitary culture during the occupation of Poland. There is a mountain of evidence to prove this. Would you like some more examples? I have dates, times, places and names. 8)
Last edited by Davey Boy on 22 Mar 2002, 20:48, edited 1 time in total.
!
Cool it people and stop posting insults!
/Marcus
/Marcus
Did not think it would take you long to slither out from under your rock SS.
The rest is just babbling, and I have other things to do more important then talking to you.
No arrogance I assure you, I am a very humble person.What a bunch of complete utter nonsense, I find it amazing that someone with such childish vieuws and uneducated, simply ignorant, perspectives finds the misplaced arrogance to whine about the same contentless issues over and over again.
Where should I start? Perhaps Poland would be a good example? What about the 3rd SS, and their own Army Commander sending a letter condemning them for the fact that they were looting, murdering, and committing other crimes etc. That is just a small example.'Germany,
Military shoots murders and rapes kills anything they do not agree with... Here is a pictural history for you folks, since reading does not seem to hold much usefullness for some, or they doubt and are skeptics.'
Laughing out loud. The above statement, as written by you, caldric, contains about as much factual issues as an empty patatoe sack. I would like to see some examples of those 'military shooting and raping everything they do not agree with'. I always tought rape and murder were part of the Ami culture, but I must have been misguided all that time.
Here you go I will give you this to start with, perhaps if you cared to know more about it you can do your own search. Yes we know well what our country did, but unlike you we do not deny it and hide and try to act like it did not happen.'Japanese were hardly innocent, I do not remember these innocent Japanese yelling for the innocent Chinese and other Asians while their army was slaughtering wholesale, or carrying out experiments.'
More laughing. So, what you are telling, is that the Japanese deserved to die, end of line? Well, I would be very interested in hearing what you mean by, first of all, 'yelling', and provide me examples of 'carrying out experiments'. That an army tends to slaughter is pretty common, we call that a war. If you look at what happened to General George Custer and his 650 cavalrists, you will understand what it means to be slaughtered. In this case, slaughtered by the rightful and true inhabitans of America, who were defending themselves against an Army suddenly deciding to participate in ethnical cleansing. What does that tell us about your morals?
Why Japanese doctors performed human experiments in China 1933-1945
- Takashi Tsuchiya
Associate Professor, Department of Philosophy
Osaka City University, Osaka, Japan
Email: [email protected]
Eubios Journal of Asian and International Bioethics 10 (2000), 179-180.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. "Factories of Death"
From 1933 to 1945, Japanese doctors in China performed thousands of cruel experiments on Chinese, Russians, Mongolians, and Koreans and killed all of them. At Unit 731 alone, at least 3,000 people were tortured and murdered. In addition, similar human experiments and vivisections were done at four branches of Unit 731, four other "Boeki Kyusui Bu" (Anti-Epidemic Water Supply and Purification Bureaus), "Gunju Boeki Sho" (Anti-Epizootic Protection Units) including Unit 100, the Manchuria Medical School, and army hospitals (1). These experiments and vivisections can be classified under the following four categories.
http://www.biol.tsukuba.ac.jp/~macer/EJ106/ej106c.htm
No perhaps in the low 100'000's, since there were only a few hundred thousand left by the time America became nation. Again we do not hide it.'But I give you some where destroyed.'
Yes, some. One or two perhaps. Maybe three, right? You better come up with some information about those 'some'.
The rest is just babbling, and I have other things to do more important then talking to you.
Stafü,
Though I agree with you that the Yanks were no knights in shining armor, statements of yours such as
Non-Jewish victims of Nazi violence
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... 21&stop=39
or of the quotes in my post # 1668 (2/27/02 5:10:50 pm) on the thread
Waffen-SS relations to Russ. civ. (Medo.Jür.)
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumth ... 41&stop=60 ,
do I? And those are just a few of many examples I could show you.
Another rabid statement that is somewhat out of place is the following:
Though I agree with you that the Yanks were no knights in shining armor, statements of yours such as
simply blink at the hard facts. I don’t have to remind you of the list of major German anti-partisan killing sprees in Belorussia featured in my post # 1217 (1/3/02 8:22:01 pm) on the threadLaughing out loud. The above statement, as written by you, caldric, contains about as much factual issues as an empty patatoe sack. I would like to see some examples of those 'military shooting and raping everything they do not agree with'. I always tought rape and murder were part of the Ami culture, but I must have been misguided all that time.
Non-Jewish victims of Nazi violence
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... 21&stop=39
or of the quotes in my post # 1668 (2/27/02 5:10:50 pm) on the thread
Waffen-SS relations to Russ. civ. (Medo.Jür.)
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumth ... 41&stop=60 ,
do I? And those are just a few of many examples I could show you.
Another rabid statement that is somewhat out of place is the following:
Caldric is obviously referring to indiscriminate air bombing, a tactic that the German Luftwaffe was first to use over Guernica, Warsaw, Belgrade, Leningrad, Stalingrad and other cities. To what extent the German people backed such measures or were indifferent to them is another matter. The fact is that hundreds of thousands of German soldiers and civilians actively participated in horrors much worse than that, such as the mass murder of Jews, Gypsies, Soviet prisoners of war and large numbers of ethnic Belorussians, Ukrainians, Russians and Poles, among others, and that a considerable part of the remaining German population knew enough of those killings to know that they didn’t want to know any more. This doesn’t mean that the German people as a whole was responsible for the crimes of the Nazis, let alone that German civilians deserved the horrors of the bombing of Germany or the flight and expulsion from the Eastern territories. But it means that your “evil Amis vs. poor innocent Germans” stance is rather far removed from reality. The fact is that there were killers on both sides, with Nazi Germany featuring those who were by far the most productive, and that the atrocities of one and the other side were performed against innocents.Again, more interesting points. From you, we learn that Germans were not innocent after all. I would be very interested in seeing that in cold hard facts, Ami. Also, ashes falling down on their homes, that is amazing. Do you have any matching amazing evidence for that, or do you just like to sell your cheap lies over the Internet?
I don’t think that German cities would have been bombed to shambles if it had not been for Hitler’s war of conquest and annihilation in Eastern Europe, which means that what the person you called a “swine” wrote actually makes sense. You are quick to blame the Soviets for the devastation wrought by German forces in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union, although the Nazis attacked the Soviet Union without provocation and in violation of a non-aggression pact. Why are you so reluctant, on the other hand, to allocate at least a part of the blame for the devastation of Germany to the Nazi government?'Both got what they asked for, War, and it was brought to them, innocent or not their form of government brought it to them not the US and allies. '
Another vulgar, tasteless and obscene remark from an Ami, the only people in the world who have the monopoly over acting as disgusting swines.
POW,POW wrote:Medorjurgen,
thank you for recommend the books to me. I'm intimate with both books and regarding that topic to following also:
http://home.arcor.de/kr/kriegsgefangene/library.html[/url]
I had a hunch that you did. Which of them did you like better? I have read this one by Paul Carell:
Very well written, even though the author seems to have been a member of the Old Guard:
http://www.nachkriegsdeutschland.de/p_paul_carell.html
The site you pointed out is also quite interesting, even though the list of sources includes nonsense such as James Bacque's Other Losses.
Regards,
Roberto
books
Merdorjurgen,
I cannot close my eyes for James Bacques views. I try to be as objective as possible and therefore all sites must be heard i.m.h.o. Although I agree with you that Other Losses is not the best one in my library. This month I have read "Das Schicksal der deutschen Kriegsgefangenen" by Ludwig Peters. That book is really nonsense! In contrast to him Bacque did some intense research at least.[/b]
I cannot close my eyes for James Bacques views. I try to be as objective as possible and therefore all sites must be heard i.m.h.o. Although I agree with you that Other Losses is not the best one in my library. This month I have read "Das Schicksal der deutschen Kriegsgefangenen" by Ludwig Peters. That book is really nonsense! In contrast to him Bacque did some intense research at least.[/b]
Just for my own conscience, for the German's out there, I never stated that the German people deserved anything, I just said they were not all innocent. Some of the bombing's of Germany was a terrible thing, such as Dresden, however, it was a part of the war, and all combatants used the tactic. To single out any one would not be productive in damning the act. Just my opinion.
Re: books
Well, Bacque does makes some interesting points, but his figures are jenseits von Gut und Böse, as is the backup he provides to justify them. I read the book when it first appeared down here some seven years ago. I was shocked after finishing the first chapter, but the more I read thereafter the stronger the suspicion grew that I was being taken for a ride. The part where he accuses Willi Brandt of having ordered the Maschke Commission to falsify the records of German deaths in captivity for the sake of good German-American relations and Bacque's complaint that his key witness Lauben had retracted from what he had allegedly told the author finally put an end to Bacque's credibility in my eyes. Nevertheless, I respect your reasons for keeping the book in the library of your otherwise exellent website, on which I congratulate you.POW wrote:Merdorjurgen,
I cannot close my eyes for James Bacques views. I try to be as objective as possible and therefore all sites must be heard i.m.h.o. Although I agree with you that Other Losses is not the best one in my library. This month I have read "Das Schicksal der deutschen Kriegsgefangenen" by Ludwig Peters. That book is really nonsense! In contrast to him Bacque did some intense research at least.[/b]
Cheers,
Roberto
Caldric,Caldric wrote:Just for my own conscience, for the German's out there, I never stated that the German people deserved anything, I just said they were not all innocent. Some of the bombing's of Germany was a terrible thing, such as Dresden, however, it was a part of the war, and all combatants used the tactic. To single out any one would not be productive in damning the act. Just my opinion.
You're actually surrounded by Germans - Standartenführer, POW and myself. But relax, two thirds of them are reasonable folks.
Best,
Roberto
-
StandartenfuehrerSS
- Banned
- Posts: 76
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 16:30
- Location: Netherlands
RIENZI
[quote="Caldric"]
'Did not think it would take you long to slither out from under your rock SS.'
This unit did not think you would come up with a posting worth even reading, and this unit seemed to be right.
'Where should I start? Perhaps Poland would be a good example? What about the 3rd SS, and their own Army Commander sending a letter condemning them for the fact that they were looting, murdering, and committing other crimes etc.'
Oh but go right ahead, publish the letter, be my guest, 'ptit con. Considering Totenkopf wasn't even fully raised during Poland, I am sure it must make up for quite a total waste of time, but push right on lad, hit me with some facts instead of infantile blabbering. Interesting, large-scale looting and murder by German troops.
As a note, you misdesignated the unit to-be. '3rd SS' was no unit in the German army. 3. SS-Panzerdivision 'Totenkopf', however, did exist. If one is anti-German and can't stop whining about the German Army, coupled with mis-designating units, what is one doing here?
'Yes we know well what our country did,'
I see. Are you aware of the senseless massacre of 520 Waffen-SS soldiers from Wiking and Nord at Dachau on 29.4.45 by the 'Thunderbird' division? Are you aware that on 5.3.45, during a nightly attack by Ami bombers armed with fire bombs over Tokyo, 261.000 buildings were destroyed and 82.793 Bewohner killed? Are you aware that those two atomic weapons your army used against civilian targets cost the life of between 85.000 and 170.000 people? Do you know America used the same terror tactiques (bombing runs against civilian targets, napalm and agent orange) in later wars? Those are hardly to called the actions of the 'just side'. But, as I still hear my friend saying;
"I doubt the simple Ami pioneer-spirit even understands."
'but unlike you we do not deny it and hide and try to act like it did not happen.'
So I deny, I try, I hide and I act, all in one sentance. Isn't caldric overacting, thereby stressfully trying divert attention from the fact he does not any arguments to stand on?
'http://www.biol.tsukuba.ac.jp/~macer/EJ106/ej106c.htm'
As I suspected, the first best link plucked from the net. So, this miserable excuse for 'something' should prove your 'point'; the Japanese deserved what they got and were all not innocent?
'No perhaps in the low 100'000's, since there were only a few hundred thousand left by the time America became nation. Again we do not hide it.'
Hilarious - and I tought Amiland was the good side? Does the good side wipe away the original inhabitans by using its Army and every willing goldseeker?
'The rest is just babbling, and I have other things to do more important then talking to you.'
Oh no, I am so hurt. I feel a sudden need to reach for my hankerchief and listen to a Chello Concerto. According to caldric himself, he is a 'humble' person. Well, I must have the wrong impression on the meaning of the word 'humble' all this time.
HA! Ami teen caldric is running with his tail between his legs! My oh my, that certainly does sound familiar, do I not remember another Ami teen doing the same?
Your very "humble" 'more important things to do' is a bad maskerde, you still have to explain yourself as to;
'Japanese were hardly innocent'
'innocent people being burned by the thousands'
'ash fell down on their homes'
And then this, your utterly tasteless phrasing;
'Germany, Military shoots murders and rapes kills anything they do not agree with'
Care to show some proof of that, or did 'the colors' decide to run after all? A lot of flag waving, those Amis, but real cowards when Pontius meets Pilatus.
'Did not think it would take you long to slither out from under your rock SS.'
This unit did not think you would come up with a posting worth even reading, and this unit seemed to be right.
'Where should I start? Perhaps Poland would be a good example? What about the 3rd SS, and their own Army Commander sending a letter condemning them for the fact that they were looting, murdering, and committing other crimes etc.'
Oh but go right ahead, publish the letter, be my guest, 'ptit con. Considering Totenkopf wasn't even fully raised during Poland, I am sure it must make up for quite a total waste of time, but push right on lad, hit me with some facts instead of infantile blabbering. Interesting, large-scale looting and murder by German troops.
As a note, you misdesignated the unit to-be. '3rd SS' was no unit in the German army. 3. SS-Panzerdivision 'Totenkopf', however, did exist. If one is anti-German and can't stop whining about the German Army, coupled with mis-designating units, what is one doing here?
'Yes we know well what our country did,'
I see. Are you aware of the senseless massacre of 520 Waffen-SS soldiers from Wiking and Nord at Dachau on 29.4.45 by the 'Thunderbird' division? Are you aware that on 5.3.45, during a nightly attack by Ami bombers armed with fire bombs over Tokyo, 261.000 buildings were destroyed and 82.793 Bewohner killed? Are you aware that those two atomic weapons your army used against civilian targets cost the life of between 85.000 and 170.000 people? Do you know America used the same terror tactiques (bombing runs against civilian targets, napalm and agent orange) in later wars? Those are hardly to called the actions of the 'just side'. But, as I still hear my friend saying;
"I doubt the simple Ami pioneer-spirit even understands."
'but unlike you we do not deny it and hide and try to act like it did not happen.'
So I deny, I try, I hide and I act, all in one sentance. Isn't caldric overacting, thereby stressfully trying divert attention from the fact he does not any arguments to stand on?
'http://www.biol.tsukuba.ac.jp/~macer/EJ106/ej106c.htm'
As I suspected, the first best link plucked from the net. So, this miserable excuse for 'something' should prove your 'point'; the Japanese deserved what they got and were all not innocent?
'No perhaps in the low 100'000's, since there were only a few hundred thousand left by the time America became nation. Again we do not hide it.'
Hilarious - and I tought Amiland was the good side? Does the good side wipe away the original inhabitans by using its Army and every willing goldseeker?
'The rest is just babbling, and I have other things to do more important then talking to you.'
Oh no, I am so hurt. I feel a sudden need to reach for my hankerchief and listen to a Chello Concerto. According to caldric himself, he is a 'humble' person. Well, I must have the wrong impression on the meaning of the word 'humble' all this time.
HA! Ami teen caldric is running with his tail between his legs! My oh my, that certainly does sound familiar, do I not remember another Ami teen doing the same?
Your very "humble" 'more important things to do' is a bad maskerde, you still have to explain yourself as to;
'Japanese were hardly innocent'
'innocent people being burned by the thousands'
'ash fell down on their homes'
And then this, your utterly tasteless phrasing;
'Germany, Military shoots murders and rapes kills anything they do not agree with'
Care to show some proof of that, or did 'the colors' decide to run after all? A lot of flag waving, those Amis, but real cowards when Pontius meets Pilatus.
-
Charles Bunch
- Member
- Posts: 846
- Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 21:03
- Location: USA
Re: Julian's attempt at an answer.
>is wallowing the depths of his own depravity, I will, though it seems bizarre, explain why accepting the opinion of the Eisenhower center or a conference convened by the said center as the last word on an issue that would destroy Eisenhower's reputation, is at best evidence of laziness and at worst stupid.
No one said the conference was the "last word", so Julian begins his stream of consciousness by constructing a strawman, not surprising given his reluctance for so long to even address his claim.
>It is standard practice when investigating an issue, to examine the sources from which information is obtained, and the probable bias's of such a source. The Eisenhower center is dedicated to the presevatation and extollation of the memory and history of Eisenhower, like the establishment of presidential librarys or memorials such as the MacArthur Memorial in Norfolk Virginia, the purpose and raison detre is built upon the virtue of the recepients of such honours. This is why you fail to find a Adolph Hitler Memorial Center, no matter how much some would entertain this idea. Pursuing this train of thought, if Eisenhower was deemed to be in fact a war criminal, I would assume that the Eisenhower center would cease to exist at the worst, or in the best case be forced to reevaluate much of its existing ethos, Ambrose may even be out of a job. To examine Ambrose himself as a source of information on Eisenhower supposed perfidity, it would be cogent to examine his role as head of the said center, unless Mr Ambrose is such an individual that he is able to divorce his conscience from any endeavour he undertakes, it would be reasonable to assume that his position reflects his admiration and desire to propagate the memory of Eisenhower, considering this, while as a historian his findings would undoubtedly have worth, they should never be used as the last word on any serious anaylsis of Eisenhowers reputation.
Julian is confused. Ambrose, and the Eisenhower center, were sponsers of the conference. The conference was composed of independent historians with expertise in the subject matter, including a leading German historian, and owed no allegience to the Eisenhower center.
Furthermore, the fact that an historical center focuses on a special interest subject is not an indication that it will lie about history.
So Julian is incorrect that on both counts - that intellectual interest equals bias, or that historians presenting papers at a conference are captives of the sponser's bias.
No one said the conference was the "last word", so Julian begins his stream of consciousness by constructing a strawman, not surprising given his reluctance for so long to even address his claim.
>It is standard practice when investigating an issue, to examine the sources from which information is obtained, and the probable bias's of such a source. The Eisenhower center is dedicated to the presevatation and extollation of the memory and history of Eisenhower, like the establishment of presidential librarys or memorials such as the MacArthur Memorial in Norfolk Virginia, the purpose and raison detre is built upon the virtue of the recepients of such honours. This is why you fail to find a Adolph Hitler Memorial Center, no matter how much some would entertain this idea. Pursuing this train of thought, if Eisenhower was deemed to be in fact a war criminal, I would assume that the Eisenhower center would cease to exist at the worst, or in the best case be forced to reevaluate much of its existing ethos, Ambrose may even be out of a job. To examine Ambrose himself as a source of information on Eisenhower supposed perfidity, it would be cogent to examine his role as head of the said center, unless Mr Ambrose is such an individual that he is able to divorce his conscience from any endeavour he undertakes, it would be reasonable to assume that his position reflects his admiration and desire to propagate the memory of Eisenhower, considering this, while as a historian his findings would undoubtedly have worth, they should never be used as the last word on any serious anaylsis of Eisenhowers reputation.
Julian is confused. Ambrose, and the Eisenhower center, were sponsers of the conference. The conference was composed of independent historians with expertise in the subject matter, including a leading German historian, and owed no allegience to the Eisenhower center.
Furthermore, the fact that an historical center focuses on a special interest subject is not an indication that it will lie about history.
So Julian is incorrect that on both counts - that intellectual interest equals bias, or that historians presenting papers at a conference are captives of the sponser's bias.
Here you go
The report on the atrocities committed by SS "Brandenburg" in Wloclawek undoubtedly reached Colonel General Blaskowitz, and helped transform that iron-spined officer into the army's most bitter critic of SS behavior in Poland. As commander of the Eighth Army during the campaign, and as chief of occupation zone Upper East (Ober Ost) after October 23, Blaskowitz dealt directly with SS Totenkopfverbande and was constantly aware of their movements and actions. The Colonel General found all the Death's Head units loathsome and was horrified by the excesses against the Poles that he composed a long memorandum cataloguing the crimes committed by the SSTV in Poland and sent it as a protest to COlonel General Walther von Brauchitsch, then however, had no effect. Brauchitsch was too weak-willed to press the issue with Hitler, and the end result-months later- was nothing more then a perfunctory meeting between Himmler and Brauchitsch in which the Reichsfuhrer SS promised that any such future activities would be conducted in a fashion inoffensive to the sensibilities of the army.
Stein, pp. 30-31; IFZ, Nuremberg document NO-3011, a photostatic copy of Blaskowitz's lengthy memorandum to Brauchitsch of February 15, 1940. Blaskowitz was especially chagrined by the brutal manner in which the SSTV carried out executions, and was equally disgusted by the frequent incidents of public drunkenness and looting by members of the SS Death Head units.
This is qouted directly from the book; Soldiers of Destruction, The Death's Head Division, 1933-1945
Charles W. Sydnor, Jr.
pp.43
Obviously you knew who I was talking about when I stated 3rd SS. Have to show you the same proof about every month to 2 months.
I went back and got this from the old forum: Thread was : StandartenfuehrerSS: you're a clown, and here's the proof
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... =183.topic
Re: books
I think it is enough said about Bacque. It's not up to me to criticise his work in public just as I hope he won't do with my workmedorjurgen wrote:Well, Bacque does makes some interesting points, but his figures are jenseits von Gut und Böse, as is the backup he provides to justify them. I read the book when it first appeared down here some seven years ago. I was shocked after finishing the first chapter, but the more I read thereafter the stronger the suspicion grew that I was being taken for a ride. The part where he accuses Willi Brandt of having ordered the Maschke Commission to falsify the records of German deaths in captivity for the sake of good German-American relations and Bacque's complaint that his key witness Lauben had retracted from what he had allegedly told the author finally put an end to Bacque's credibility in my eyes. Nevertheless, I respect your reasons for keeping the book in the library of your otherwise exellent website, on which I congratulate you.
. It is true that Willy Brandt ordered that the Maschke report had to be closed and prohibited publishing. He wanted to avoid a public discussion in Germany or even worst in the foreign countries. In his opinion people could get the impression, that a crosscheck would be opened about the injustice of the Allies against the injustice of the Nazis. He was scared that this could endanger the foreign policy turned toward reconciliation.I often heard: "The winner writes the history". What about: "The money writes the history". The German gouvernment stopped the payment of the Maschke comission and they couln't finish their work in a proper way. The best example vor an overhasting finish of the research is the editon "in british custody".
I also doubt that Willi Brand ordered to false any records. But lets go back in time. When the Maschke comission was set up by Adenauer, the war was over not long ago and the memories on it quite fresh. In Germany the people knew very well that their future dependent on decisions made by the Allies. After the western Allies decided not to make one big farm out of Germany (Morgenthau) but to support West-Germany (Marshall), the people were very pleased and pro american of course. That mood/public opinion had influence to the authors of the Maschke komission also i.m.h.o. It is easier to forgive faults a friend made than a foe made.
Many thanks for praise my sites. In a few weeks I will publish the history of german prisoners in French custody. Therefore I need more information's to "Forces Francais de l'Intérieur" (F.F.I.) and the "Franctireurs Partisans" (F.P.). Do you know some good sources?