Genocide in Volhynia

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michael mills
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#196

Post by michael mills » 21 Nov 2016, 03:09

Only in Polish opertaing post-war Auschwitz hundreds of Ukrainian civilians were tortued to death.
Interesting.

I visited Poland for the second time in August this year, and as part of that tour made a day trip to Auschwitz from Krakow. On the way there, our guide told us that there is one fact about Auschwitz that is not very well known, and that is not taught in Polish schools, namely that the camp continued to be operated by the Polish Government for a few years after the end of the War, as a prison for opponents of the new Communist regime, and that a fairly large number of the prisoners died there.

I do not recall her mentioning Ukrainians as being among those post-war prisoners, but it is quite possible that there were.

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wm
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#197

Post by wm » 22 Nov 2016, 03:27

There were two, run by the NKVD, Soviet transitional camps in the former KL Auschwitz, Camp 22 and Camp 78. It seems the German soldiers and German civilians kept there (25,000 of them) were treated more or less correctly.
In the town (and outside the KL Auschwitz) there was a small camp (five barracks), for "unreliable Germans", ran by the local District Office of Public Security. It isn't known what was going on in there, during the ten months of its existence 144 people died in this camp.


snpol
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#198

Post by snpol » 30 Jul 2019, 13:51

Polish historian Piotr Zychowicz in the interview to Polish historical edition describes some details of the Genocide in Volhynia.
https://nowahistoria.interia.pl/aktualn ... Id,3077947
According to him the majority of Poles who survived the genocide in Volyn were either the residents of cities, or refugees from the villages. There were strong German garrison and Ukrainian nationalists avoided clashes with armed German soldiers,
Thus cities in Volyn with German garrisons were safe places for the Poles. Of course, the Germans used the situation for their own interests and the majority of refugees coming to the city were taken to forced labor in the Reich. It's a paradox that a Pole from Volhynia was safer, slavishly working in Germany than in their Polish village
It appears that the Germans even formed Polish military units and armed them to defend Polish civilians - the victims of the genocide.
Units of which I speak, were German armed and in many places in Volhynia attacked by Banderites [followers of the leader of Ukrainian nationalists Bandera], defended Polish villages and cities, or helped in the evacuation of survivors.
There was another form of support by the Germans, namely formation in Volyn the Polish police formations. I mean here 202. Schutzmannschaft battalion, which also protected the Poles from Banderovites. Unfortunately, there is another side of the coin. Organized by Germans the Polish officers in the Volyn region also made a series of retaliatory crimes in Ukrainian villages.
As for the clashed between Poles and Ukrainians then according to the historian the Germans believed that the Slavs can to kill each other, and the Germans should not hinder it.
It is known, however, many cases when the Germans came to the Poles for help to evacuate them to the safe place, and often in the framework of revenge pacified neighboring Ukrainian village.
In East Volhynia the Poles were defended by Soviet partisans against Ukrainian nationalists.
...the units of Soviet partisans operating nearby Polish villages were supplied with food and clothing in the Polish localities, often also using the buildings to hide from the cold. In exchange, the Russian defended the Poles from Banderites.
According to the author, as a result a significant part of the Poles in Volhynia was looking forward to be liberated by the Red Army.
But what about Polish Home Army that was directed by Polish government in exile? Did it try to defend the Poles in Volhynia?
The main and the absolute mistake of leadership of the home Army was the marginalization and ignoring the threat posed by Ukrainian nationalists in Volhynia.
In fact the Home Army was mainly passive in Volhynia. But why?
The Army had other priorities, which is evident from the documents.
AK [the Home Army] ... was preparing to conduct revolt and Action "Storm". This was the goal, which command of the home Army, a bit like the horse with the straps on the eyes to achieve the best. Despite the massacre and subsequent offences, it still remains the number one priority.
The command of the home Army did not want to share power and spend resources in the battle with the Ukrainians.

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#199

Post by David Thompson » 30 Jul 2019, 15:43

For German policy in the area, see:

How the Nazi occupation failed in Galicia/ Ukraine
viewtopic.php?p=431283#431283

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wm
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#200

Post by wm » 03 Aug 2019, 00:01

The genocide was consciously ordered by the leadership of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, the goal was to cleanse the territory from non-Ukrainians, to present the Allies with a fait accompli, to create a Ukrainian state at all costs before the Red Army arrived.
It had nothing to do with the Germans and their beliefs. The territory was known for brutal genocidal wars. It was known as slaughtering fields even before the war.

the Home Army was numerous but weak, lacked arms and the goal was to regain independence not to (ineffectively) defend the population.

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#201

Post by smetanin albert » 05 Apr 2022, 14:29

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#202

Post by Ponury » 10 Apr 2022, 10:58

wm wrote:
03 Aug 2019, 00:01
It was known as slaughtering fields even before the war.
W jakim sensie? Z akcji polskiej policji, KOP czy żandarmerii przed 1939? Ale chyba nie aż tak krwawych :welcome:

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#203

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 10 Apr 2022, 21:25

Poles = land owners
Jews = traders, merchants, (money onwners)
Ukrainians = peasants

In what extent these ukrainian clichés are true ?

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#204

Post by Ponury » 11 Apr 2022, 20:18

50/50 prawda jest pośrodku. W każdym narodzie są mordercy.

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#205

Post by David Thompson » 14 Apr 2022, 02:56

AHF is a forum which conducts its discussions in English. Further non-English posts will be removed.

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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#206

Post by Ponury » 14 Apr 2022, 21:38

Sorry, its google translator.... live :)

In what sense? From the action of the Polish police, KOP or gendarmerie before 1939? But probably not that bloody :)

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wm
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#207

Post by wm » 14 Apr 2022, 23:54

Ponury wrote:
14 Apr 2022, 21:38
Sorry, its google translator.... live :)

In what sense? From the action of the Polish police, KOP or gendarmerie before 1939? But probably not that bloody :)
The reputation was earned during the Russian Civil War and of course during the Khmelnytsky Uprising.
It doesn't mean the Ukrainians were killers but that civil wars on, devoid of any natural or man-made defensive features plains are the worst of them all.

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wm
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Re: Genocide in Volhynia

#208

Post by wm » 15 Apr 2022, 00:41

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 21:25
Poles = land owners
Jews = traders, merchants, (money onwners)
Ukrainians = peasants

In what extent these ukrainian clichés are true ?
It was mostly the political ambitions of Khmelnytsky - exploiting existing class dynamics. It's quite possible Khmelnytsky wasn't especially thrilled by the participation of Ukrainian peasants in his uprising for the simple reason they were bad and unruly soldiers.
And the Poles were mostly peasants, and the Ukrainians weren't only peasants. The percentage of traders, merchants, usurers among the Jews probably G-d himself doesn't know.

But it's a useful approximation for the purpose of refuting the Jewish conspiracy theory that the uprising was only about killing Jews or because "gentiles were and always had been possessed by 'eliminationist anti-semitism'."

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