Question with a photo

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 10:41

Scott Smith wrote:
medorjurgen wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:And, if it's not true, it ought to be, right?
No, Reverend. It would be better if it were not, but unfortunately it is.
I don't know if it is true or not, Mr. Believer. The rifle, if it is even aimed at the woman, is aimed at her head and not at her torso, and thus additionally not the child. That embellishment was just a little bit of Greuelpropaganda perhaps.
Reverend is getting smarter by the hour. And I thought that the head is the best place to aim at if you want to kill someone. As to the child, it will either be hit by the bullet passing through the mother or die all by itself when she has been shot.
And they supposedly have time to dig a grave, so why aren't they stripping her naked FIRST?
Because the picture shows an ad-hoc shooting rather than an organized Einsatzgruppen - style mass execution, most likely. It is probable, as a matter of fact, that it shows victims of anti-partisan reprisals against civilians rather than Jews killed in the course of an Einsatzgruppen mass execution. Makes no difference to me, as it's murder in both cases.
But, as per your previous objection, if they can't salvage the clothes then why take them at all?
Reverend is shooting himself into the foot. In the Einsatzgruppen mass executions of Jews, people were forced to strip naked before being shot into mass graves. Such did not necessarily happen when German forces shot civilians as a reprisal for partisan attacks or in the course of so-called anti-partisan operations. Which means that this picture:

Image
Berenbaum, Michael. The World Must Know. ISBN 0-316-09135-9. Page 96.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?or ... /eg-07.ref

shows the result of a mass execution of Jews and not of an "anti-partisan" massacre of civilians, by the Reverend's own reasoning. The Reverend should get some rest.
No, Roberto, I think you should reach deep inside yourself and find the honesty to admit that you need atrocity stories to be true--whether they ARE or not is unimportant.
As you well know, Reverend, I only consider atrocity stories to be true if they are properly documented. And if it were not for True Believers like the Reverend, I would hardly be talking about atrocities at all. So cut out the crap, will you?
Just as I want to question the stories, you want NOT to question them.
No, buddy. Just as you want to question whatever doesn't fit into your bubble because it doesn't fit into your bubble, I require evidence and reason to support such questioning, which I haven't see so far on the "Revisionist" side.
I think that's "Moral Certainty," don't you? You demand piety. I demand proof.
The other way round once again, Reverend. I demand evidence and follow the evidence there is where it leads, because unlike the Reverend I have no ideological axe to grind. You demand Faith in that, whatever the evidence, things you don't want to have happened never happened. That is "Moral Certainty", Mr. True Believer.
Keep the Faith fellow revisionists. The Nazis and the SS were the good guys--but the anti-Nazis and the anti-revisionists dare not admit it for fear of losing their fabulous, ill gotten gains from the war.”
“Hoaxbuster” Friedrich Paul Berg on the Codoh discussion forum.
http://www.codoh.org/dcforum/DCForumID9/143.html#10
Last edited by Roberto on 19 Apr 2002 11:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 10:56

Snafu wrote:
Medi: Big deal. The photo on top is an enlarged section of the photo below. If that’s what “Revisionists” think they can impress people with, I feel sorry for them.
You are not paying attention to detail. The leg of the body on the ground extends well beyond the boot of the soldier. In the lower image there is no leg at all:

http://www.codoh.com/graphics2/daspikturfullhigry.jpg
Another "Revisionist" getting smarter by the hour. The low-quality upper picture obviously shows but a section of what the even lower-quality lower picture shows, also on the left side. And on the lower picture there is also something hiding part of the killer's boot from view, although the picture is too bad to allow for identifying what it is. Where does the lower one come from, by the way? Did it pass through the hands of photo artist Udo Walendy, perhaps?
Also try enlarge the picture using the little rectangle in the lower right corner. (Or perhaps this only a feature of my recently installed Windows 2000 or some software on my computer?).
What am I supposed to see? And what conclusion is that supposed to lead me to?
The body comes out better at this place:

http://www.ushmm.org/kovno/mass/mass.htm#
Interesting. Again, what is the conclusion supposed to be? That the lower picture on the Codoh link is a low-quality retouching of the original picture, perhaps?
Mediman: I know that you are one of the more reasonable of your kind…

Well I guess that’s some sort of compliment, so… thanks. It would be nicer though if you could be equally as nice to other people in this forum as well.
I am to people what they are to me. As simple as that.

Image

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Post by Dan » 19 Apr 2002 13:50


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Post by Thorfinn » 19 Apr 2002 15:08

meinungen wrote:Bogdan Musial
Bogdan Musial said that he does not know if this specific picture is real or fake.

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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 16:10

Dan wrote:Here's the same sort of photo:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/04/Israe ... html#child
Why, is that bloody Jewish bastard (good old Dave seems to have little else on his plate these days) about to shoot the kid?
Last edited by Roberto on 19 Apr 2002 16:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 16:12

Thorfinn wrote:
meinungen wrote:Bogdan Musial
Bogdan Musial said that he does not know if this specific picture is real or fake.
Now here's some interesting information by Mr. Aryan Nations, for a change. What exactly did Musial write about the photograph in question and where?

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Post by Thorfinn » 19 Apr 2002 16:40

I asked him if he thought that the photo was real or fake, and he said that he is familiar with the photo, but he does not know if it is real or fake. Below is what he said in reply to my question of whether he thought that the photo was genuine.
Bogdan Musial wrote:Sehr geehrter Herr,
ich kenne dieses Foto. Ich kann leider aber nichts ueber die Herkunft des Fotos sagen.
Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Bogdan Musial

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 16:49

Thorfinn wrote:I asked him if he thought that the photo was real or fake, and he said that he is familiar with the photo, but he does not know if it is real or fake. Below is what he said in reply to my question of whether he thought that the photo was genuine.
Bogdan Musial wrote:Sehr geehrter Herr,
ich kenne dieses Foto. Ich kann leider aber nichts ueber die Herkunft des Fotos sagen.
Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Bogdan Musial
Thanks again for the information. A translation might be recommendable as a courtesy to those of our readers who don't understand German:
Dear Sir,
I know this photograph. I unfortunately can say nothing about the origin of the photograph, however.
Kind regards
Bogdan Musial
In other words, Musial is saying that he knows nothing about the origin of the photograph. Which of course is somewhat different from what Thorfinn would like to read into his words.

Is there any way I can contact Musial myself, by the way?

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 17:16

medorjurgen wrote:Is there any way I can contact Musial myself, by the way?
No reply?

Never mind, I found Musial’s e-mail address in the meantime myself, in an interesting commentary on Musial’s book "Konterrevolutionaere Elemente sind zu erschiessen". Die Brutalisierung des deutsch-sowjetischen Krieges im Sommer 1941 by German historian Dieter Pohl that of the Institut für Zeitgeschichte that I intend to translate for this forum, together with Musial’s reply.

The commentary can be found under the following link:

http://hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de ... Di0401.htm

Bogdan Musial’s e-mail address is:

[email protected]

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Post by Thorfinn » 19 Apr 2002 17:29

meinungen wrote:In other words, Musial is saying that he knows nothing about the origin of the photograph. Which of course is somewhat different from what Thorfinn would like to read into his words.
No it is not. To put it into context for you, his reply was to the exact question below.
Thorfinn wrote:There is a picture that is fairly popular, and it is being claimed to be a fake. I am wondering if you can tell me if it is fake or real?

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Post by Hans » 19 Apr 2002 17:31

Hi medorjurgen,

Bogdan Musial was/is also posting in an online forum of the "Narichtendienst für Historiker" :
http://www.nfhdata.de/cgi-local/newsboa ... CForumID21

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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 17:44

Thorfinn wrote:
meinungen wrote:In other words, Musial is saying that he knows nothing about the origin of the photograph. Which of course is somewhat different from what Thorfinn would like to read into his words.
No it is not. To put it into context for you, his reply was to the exact question below.
Thorfinn wrote:There is a picture that is fairly popular, and it is being claimed to be a fake. I am wondering if you can tell me if it is fake or real?
Yeah, and Musial replied that he knew nothing about the origin of that picture:
Dear Sir,
I know this photograph. I unfortunately can say nothing about the origin of the photograph, however.
Kind regards
Bogdan Musial
He thus could also say nothing about whether the authenticity of the picture is in doubt. Wake up, dreamer.
Last edited by Roberto on 19 Apr 2002 17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Davey Boy » 19 Apr 2002 17:48

Gents, who's Bogo Musial? Sounds Polish...

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 19 Apr 2002 17:58

HETMAN wrote:Gents, who's Bogo Musial? Sounds Polish...
Bogdan Musial is a Polish historian at the “Deutsches Historisches Institut” in Warsaw. He made a name by demonstrating that pictures of the original Wehrmacht War Crimes Exhibition captioned as showing the victims of an anti-Jewish pogrom in June 1941 in Tarnopol, Ukraine, actually showed victims of mass executions in NKVD prisons that had contributed to inciting said pogrom. He also wrote a book about the connection between the NKVD’s massacres in Eastern Poland during the Soviet occupation and the ensuing pogroms and mass executions of Jews in the initial period of the Nazi-Soviet war:

Image

If you want to have a chat with Mr. Musial, here is his e-mail. I found it on a website, so I presume it is official and open to everyone:

[email protected]

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YOU KEEP ME HANGIN' ON

Post by Scott Smith » 19 Apr 2002 18:05

Roberto,

Don't leave me hanging here! I'm waiting for you to post another body-stinkpile photograph so that I can post some more degenerate Holo-ART.
:wink:

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