Oradour-sur-Glane

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Dolf van Stijgeren
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 21 May 2005 22:31
Location: Netherlands

Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Dolf van Stijgeren » 04 Aug 2009 22:53

After visiting Oradour-sur-Glane, the village that was destroyed on June 10, 1944, when 642 of its inhabitants were murdered by a German Waffen-SS company, I have a question: are these the rabbit hutches were the 6 survivers (including Robert Hébras) hid before finally escaping?
Robert Hébras was 19 when his life collapsed in nightmare. In a few hours he lost everthing: his family, his possessions, and every trace of his past.
D.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Hubert
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Hubert » 05 Aug 2009 17:24

Just some facts to add,

M. Hébras was 18 years old, he lost his mother and two sisters, his father and his oldest sister escaped the horrible crime, because they were not in the town when the event occured.

<Do I have to explain that I only added facts, I did not try to put a crime in a harmless light?>

Regards

Hubert

User avatar
HaEn
In memoriam
Posts: 1911
Joined: 13 Mar 2002 00:58
Location: Portland OR U.S.A.

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by HaEn » 05 Aug 2009 18:19

Looks to me that this is the ruins of the infamous church, where the people fled, but were trapped, and died, because the resistance had stored explosives, and other weoponry as well as fuel there.
What exactly happened is still a close guarded mystery, and wholly laid at the feet of the Waffen SS.
Not too long ago, a dutch reporter alledgedly was told to get his "ars" out of there and stop asking questions.
Perhaps the next generation will find out what exactly happened there.
HN

User avatar
Harro
Member
Posts: 3006
Joined: 19 May 2005 18:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Harro » 05 Aug 2009 18:35

The start of yet another appologist topic about the brave and honest Waffen-SS and the dirty resistance fighters? :roll:

User avatar
bf109 emil
Member
Posts: 3627
Joined: 25 Mar 2008 21:20
Location: Youngstown Alberta Canada

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by bf109 emil » 05 Aug 2009 18:58

HaEn you wrote or asked
What exactly happened is still a close guarded mystery, and wholly laid at the feet of the Waffen SS.
Not too long ago, a dutch reporter alledgedly was told to get his "ars" out of there and stop asking questions.
Perhaps the next generation will find out what exactly happened there.
Of course it was laid at the feet of the Waffen SS as they where the doers of this deed, what we might find out later was if they where justified for committing this crime, as a crime was committed and was responsible for over hundreds of people perishing cannot be disputed...did they act accordingly to the articles of war is unknown and will take a Waffen SS to determine there justification for doing this heinous crime!

I will look for the legalities as to Germany's responsibility to treat fairly and humanely those deemed or assumed to be as termed resistance along with the legal reprisals for dealing with them...burning or destroying a church and killing many whom had no ties to resistance and perhaps knowledge of said activities, as you asked where laid at the feet of the Waffen SS, i to ask where justification for doing this was deemed okay and correct according to the articles of war pertaining to the treatment of resistance as being just and the responsibility of the German army to administer due justice while assuring the innocent are not unjustly tried or receive punishment deemed unfair or just...

I did find this regarding France and it's policy both wanted by it's government and pressed for by resistance as to the dealings of collaborators during the German occupation...and also to wonder if the over 1000 deemed guilty and put to death where likewise justified...an interesting read if one wantshttp://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/d ... _24_04.pdf

Dolf van Stijgeren
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 21 May 2005 22:31
Location: Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Dolf van Stijgeren » 05 Aug 2009 19:49

Harro wrote:The start of yet another appologist topic about the brave and honest Waffen-SS and the dirty resistance fighters? :roll:
I quite understand the irony of your message, but I only want to know (except for the big WHY of course) if these the rabbit hutches were the 6 survivors (including Robert Hébras) hid before finally escaping.

Dolf

User avatar
Harro
Member
Posts: 3006
Joined: 19 May 2005 18:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Harro » 05 Aug 2009 20:00

De ironie, welke ironie? Ik erger mij er gewoon aan dat jij een aantal fraaie foto's van Oradour laat zien en dat ontkenners van de misdaden van de SS meteen toesnellen om de schuld voor wat overduidelijke een wandaad was van de Waffen-SS in de schoenen te schuiven van het Franse verzet terwijl zo'n discussie niet jouw bedoeling was.

(mods, sorry for the foreign language but both Dolf and HaEn will understand. I'm sick and tired of the SS appologist reactions everytime somebody starts a topic about Oradour. And I know that isn't Dolf's fault or intention)

Dolf van Stijgeren
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 21 May 2005 22:31
Location: Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Dolf van Stijgeren » 05 Aug 2009 20:04

HaEn wrote:Looks to me that this is the ruins of the infamous church, where the people fled, but were trapped, and died, because the resistance had stored explosives, and other weoponry as well as fuel there.
What exactly happened is still a close guarded mystery, and wholly laid at the feet of the Waffen SS.
Not too long ago, a dutch reporter alledgedly was told to get his "ars" out of there and stop asking questions.
Perhaps the next generation will find out what exactly happened there.
HN
Last week I visited the site for the second time and I am quite sure - after reading several books about it - it is next to Laudy's barn where the slaughter took place.

I would like to learn more about what happened with the Dutch reporter.

D.

Dolf van Stijgeren
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 21 May 2005 22:31
Location: Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Dolf van Stijgeren » 05 Aug 2009 20:37

HaEn wrote: and died, because the resistance had stored explosives, and other weoponry as well as fuel there.
HN
This has ever been proved and I did not find it in any of the books I have. Whatever the cause was, it cannot be justified, but I am convinced we all agree on this.

This is a text (see photo I illegally took) I read on the wall of the Oradour museum and I find it quite interesting.

D.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
JTG
Financial supporter
Posts: 840
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 21:10
Location: R.N. La Mare, Jersey, British Channel Islands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by JTG » 05 Aug 2009 20:59

They appear to be external to the main building and originally roofed; some form of storage shed. Rabbit hutches wouldn't usually be built of brick with doorways. More likely tool-stores, even possibly toilets.

What does the red writing on the plaque on the fence say? "Defense d'entrer" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't resolve it.

John

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23261
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by David Thompson » 05 Aug 2009 21:42

For other discussions on this topic, some quite detailed, see:

Oradour-Sur-Glane
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39809
Remember Oradour Sur Glane
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=83314
oradour
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52659
Oradour
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=35838
War crimes against Germans in France prior Tulle & Orado
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72188
Das Reich War Crimes in France
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=58641
The Town that was wiped from history
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=34363
Oops wrong town...
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3800

Dolf van Stijgeren
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 21 May 2005 22:31
Location: Netherlands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Dolf van Stijgeren » 05 Aug 2009 22:15

JTG wrote:They appear to be external to the main building and originally roofed; some form of storage shed. Rabbit hutches wouldn't usually be built of brick with doorways. More likely tool-stores, even possibly toilets.

What does the red writing on the plaque on the fence say? "Defense d'entrer" doesn't seem to fit, but I can't resolve it.

John

I took a picture of a ground plan of Laudy's barn that features in the book of Robert Hébras (I am on holiday and obviously don't have a scanner). The location of the rabbit hutches seem to match with my sense of direction, but I am not sure. Mr. Hébras mentions three hutches and this is what seems to appear on my pictures.

The sign says something like "do not enter" - to keep the tourists out of the houses/sites (this sign can been seen all over the place).

Dolf
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
lebel
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 14:25
Location: Neuilly France

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by lebel » 05 Aug 2009 22:51

HaEn wrote:Looks to me that this is the ruins of the infamous church, where the people fled, but were trapped, and died, because the resistance had stored explosives, and other weoponry as well as fuel there.
That's exactly what claims french negationnist Vincent Reynouard and websites of the like !

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 6040
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Aug 2009 04:31

michael mills wrote: It is entirely legitimate to refer to the explosives and fuel allegedly stored in the church, the explosion of which was the immediate cause of the deaths of the women and children who had either been imprisoned or had taken refuge there.
What about the women shot when they fled the burning church?
Is there some evidence the Resistance did that?


michael mills wrote:One version of the event is that the SS unit involved intended to execute the men of the village as a reprisal for a Resistance attack, but not the women and children, and that the deaths of the latter in the burning church was an unintended accident, due to the explosion.
Ah so the women were accidently shot when the SS were firing at the ................what?

michael mills wrote: I do not know whether that version is true, but so far as I know it has not been conclusively disproved.

And no one has conclusively disproved that the moon landing was a fake.

User avatar
JTG
Financial supporter
Posts: 840
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 21:10
Location: R.N. La Mare, Jersey, British Channel Islands

Re: Oradour-sur-Glane

Post by JTG » 06 Aug 2009 04:36

To Michael Mills: make your mind up.

Were the women and children innocently,temporarily, interned in that church?
To be released after all the men had been shot?

And then -whoopsydaisy- the stores that the Resistance had hidden blew up?

HaEn still cannot believe the depths that his countrymen could sink so low. I do not blame him in the slightest and offer him my heartfelt apologies.


John Germain

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”