5 SS and Luftwaffe Captain executed by firing squad

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michael mills
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Re: 5 SS and Luftwaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#16

Post by michael mills » 17 Aug 2010, 06:12

The crucial point is whether they were sentenced to death in a fair trial.
Yes, but what constitutes a fair trial?
The scene: Western Poland, September 1939.
A squad of German soldiers, led by a sergeant, bring a 15-year-old Polish boy before their company commander.

Sergeant: "Herr Hauptmann, we found this boy sneaking around our positions. We are sure he was trying to commit sabotage".
Captain: "What grounds have you for thinking he was trying to commit sabotage?"
Sergeant: "Well, he is a Pole and must be hostile to us, always looking for a chance to do us harm. Also, we found a paper on him showing he is a member of Harcerstwo, the Polish Boy Scouts. The members of Harcerstwo are known to be fanatically hostile to us, and are linked to the National Democratic Party, which we all know is extremely anti-German. I reckon the only reason a member of Harcerstwo would be hanging around our positions would be to commit some sort of sabotage".
Captain (to the boy): "What were you doing around our positions? Were you trying to commit sabotage?"
Polish Boy: "No, Herr Hauptmann. I was just trying to get home".
Captain: "On the basis of the evidence, I find that this boy was attempting to commit sabotage against the German armed forces, an illegal act, since he is not a legitimate member of the Polish armed forces. Take him out and shoot him".

Did this Polish boy receive a fair trial? A German officer heard the evidence against him, consisting of the suspicions of the German soldiers who caught him, let the boy have his say, and reached a decision based on the evidence, namely the boy's activity which was rendered suspicious by his background.
It has always been legal to execute inhabitants of occupied territories for participating in hostilities as francs tireurs and espionage (aka 'war treason').
A number of participants in this Forum, including the moderator on occasion, have postulated a right, under the international law of the time, for the civilian population of an invaded country to form militias and fight with weapons in hand against the invading armed force. If that right indeed existed, and it has been claimed for Polish and French civilians, then presumably it existed also for German civilians, and the Hitler Youth might be considered to be a militia, particularly if the German Government had given its members the status of combatants, as I think it did in the final stages of the war.

David Thompson
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Re: 5 SS and Luftwaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#17

Post by David Thompson » 17 Aug 2010, 14:44

Michael -- You wrote:
A number of participants in this Forum, including the moderator on occasion, have postulated a right, under the international law of the time, for the civilian population of an invaded country to form militias and fight with weapons in hand against the invading armed force.
There was and is such a right. Note, however, that the right is limited, and whether or not it exists in any particular case is a question of fact:
Article 2
The population of a territory which has not been occupied who, on the enemy's approach, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading troops without having time to organize themselves in accordance with Article 1, shall be regarded as belligerents, if they respect the laws and customs of war.
1899 Hague II Convention annex
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century ... 2.asp#art2
Art. 2.
The inhabitants of a territory which has not been occupied, who, on the approach of the enemy, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading troops without having had time to organize themselves in accordance with Article 1, shall be regarded as belligerents if they carry arms openly and if they respect the laws and customs of war.
1907 Hague IV Convention annex
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century ... 4.asp#art2
ARTICLE 1.
The present Convention shall apply, without prejudice to the stipulations of Title VII:

To all persons mentioned in Articles 1, 2 and 3 of the Regulations annexed to the Hague Convention respecting the laws and customs of war on land, of October 18, 1907, and captured by the enemy.
1929 Geneva POW Convention
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century ... 2.asp#art1
ARTICLE 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
* * * * *
(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
1949 Geneva III Convention
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century ... 3.asp#art4


PFLB
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Re: 5 SS and Luftwaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#18

Post by PFLB » 17 Aug 2010, 17:05

There's a difference between the levee en masse, which precedes belligerent occupation, and fighting as francs-tireur, which succeeds it, and espionage, which is distinct from both. If the people shot were conducting sabotage or espionage against Allied forces, out of uniform, in territory under belligerent occupation, then the applicable law is unambiguous - they could be tried and executed for war treason.
'Yes, but what constitutes a fair trial?'
Your hypothetical situation seems to be mere conjecture to me, and conjecture about a 'scene' in Poland in 1939 doesn't really provide convincing evidence to exonerate the Nazis for summarily executing large numbers of Poles; acts which have been adjudged as criminal many times over, most notably in the Justice Case. Regardless, the issue of what constitutes a fair trial was dealt with in many prosecutions, representative examples of which, with commentary, can be found in vol 5 of the UNWCC Reports. Without going into detail, the 'trial' you suppose to have happened doesn't meet the standard required.

gumrak
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Re: 5 SS and Luftaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#19

Post by gumrak » 03 Nov 2011, 16:47

Hello, i am a new user and I have further information about the photo.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8#p1475499

The dead one: Heinrich Rohlfing
executed by : 9.Us Army Firing Squad
Date of birth: 08.07.1917
Place of birth: Hartum near Minden , Germany
Date of death: 14.06.1945
Place of death: Denstorf near Braunschweig ,Germany (googlemaps: http://g.co/maps/da8ht)
reagards

Kauko
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Location: Solingen, Germany

Re: 5 SS and Luftaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#20

Post by Kauko » 19 Jan 2018, 16:33

Ossian wrote:
Curt Bruns was an officer in the Volks-Grenadier-Regiment sentenced to death for the murder of two American prisoners by a First Army military commission on 7th April, 1945. The memorandum I have on his case claims that he was executed on June 9th, 1945 by order of the Commanding General of the 12th Army Group. Personnel of the Ninth Army are said to have carried out the execution by shooting.
Since his death date is also given as 14th June, I researched some more. The Standesamt Braunschweig told me that they have his death entry (#2508/1945) as "Kurt Bruns", born 12 March 1915 on the island of Juist, died 14 June 1945, cause of death "execution by shooting". On the Neuer Friedhof (New Cemetery) in Norden there is his headstone, showing the same birth and death dates but spelling his first name as "Curt" (like his trial papers do). Photo of his gravestone available on http://www.grabsteine-ostfriesland.de.

Regards,
Kauko

Peter
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Re: 5 SS and Luftwaffe Captain executed by firing squad

#21

Post by Peter » 01 Mar 2018, 17:18

Nachname: Schöner
Vorname: Josef
Geburtsdatum: 02.03.1928
Geburtsort: Heinsberg
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 01.06.1945
Todes-/Vermisstenort: nicht verzeichnet
Josef Schöner ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Braunschweig-Neuer Kath.Fdh.. Endgrablage: Grab 552
Source VDK

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