Nemmerdorf example of pre-planned soviet atrocity in germany

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wildboar
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Nemmerdorf example of pre-planned soviet atrocity in germany

#1

Post by wildboar » 21 Apr 2002, 14:41

It is well known fact that soviet union commited many atrocities on german civilians and they were pre-planned -here i am quoting example of nemmersdorf which was nothing but pre-planned atrocity and till today no criminal who commited the inhuman act in nemmersdorf ever brough to justice but were shielded by successive allied and soviet government-
Just inside the east German border with Czechoslovakia, the town of Nemmersdorf was the first to fall into the hands of the victorious Red Army. Overrun by General Gatlitsky's 11th Guards Army, his soldiers, crazy with bloodlust, set about raping, looting and killing with such ferocity that eventually discipline had to be restored to force the soldiers back to fighting the war. From buildings, Russian signs were hung which read ' Soldiers! Majdanek does not forgive. Take revenge without mercy!'. When the Soviet 4th Army took over the town five days later, hardly a single inhabitant remained alive. Women were found nailed to barn doors after being stripped naked and gang raped, their bodies then used for target practice. Many women, and girls as young as eight years old, were raped so often and brutally that they died from this abuse alone. Children were shot indiscriminately and all those trying to flee were crushed to death under the treads of the Soviet tanks. Forty French prisoners-of-war were shot on the spot as spies after welcoming the Red Army as liberators. Seventy one women and one man were found in houses, all dead. All the women, including girls aged from eight to twelve, had been raped. In other East Prussian villages within the triangle Gumbinnen-Goldap-Ebenrode, the same scenes were witnessed, old men and boys being castrated and their eyes gouged out before being killed or burned alive. In nearby Metgethen, a suburb of Königsberg, recaptured by the German 5th Panzer Division, around 60 women were found in a demented state in a large villa. They had been raped on average 60 to 70 times a day. In nearly every home, the bodies of women and children were found raped and murdered. The bodies of two young women were found, their legs had been tied one limb each between two trucks, and then torn apart when the trucks were driven away in opposite directions. At Metgethen railway station, a refugee train from Konigsberg, consisting of seven passenger coaches, was found and in each compartment seven to nine bestially mutilated bodies were discovered. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, an ex captain in the Soviet Army, recalls, "All of us knew very well that if girls were German they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction" (Details of these, and other attrocities, are contained in the Eastern Documentation Section of the German Federal Archives at Koblenz).




Davey Boy
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#2

Post by Davey Boy » 21 Apr 2002, 16:57

What's your source and do you have any other reliable sources to verify this information?


Ovidius
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#3

Post by Ovidius » 21 Apr 2002, 18:41

HETMAN wrote:What's your source and do you have any other reliable sources to verify this information?
What's your source and do you have any reliable sources after all for your claims of 6 million Polish citizens(3 million Jews and 3 million Poles), figure what you've thrown around for months? :P

~Ovidius

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#4

Post by Pumpkin » 21 Apr 2002, 19:13

For the source, read the end of post:
(Details of these, and other attrocities, are contained in the Eastern Documentation Section of the German Federal Archives at Koblenz).
But while they have a website, they don't seem to have anything online concerning Nemmersdorf.

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#5

Post by Davey Boy » 21 Apr 2002, 22:36

Ovidius wrote:
HETMAN wrote:What's your source and do you have any other reliable sources to verify this information?
What's your source and do you have any reliable sources after all for your claims of 6 million Polish citizens(3 million Jews and 3 million Poles), figure what you've thrown around for months? :P

~Ovidius
The figure was about 5 million. And I have given my sources; they include highly respected academics and organizations in Poland and abroad, like the IPN. Go back and check the thread "non-Jewish victims of the Nazis" on the old forum.

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#6

Post by Roberto » 22 Apr 2002, 21:42

wildboar wrote:It is well known fact that soviet union commited many atrocities on german civilians and they were pre-planned -here i am quoting example of nemmersdorf which was nothing but pre-planned atrocity and till today no criminal who commited the inhuman act in nemmersdorf ever brough to justice but were shielded by successive allied and soviet government-

Just inside the east German border with Czechoslovakia, the town of Nemmersdorf was the first to fall into the hands of the victorious Red Army. Overrun by General Gatlitsky's 11th Guards Army, his soldiers, crazy with bloodlust, set about raping, looting and killing with such ferocity that eventually discipline had to be restored to force the soldiers back to fighting the war. From buildings, Russian signs were hung which read ' Soldiers! Majdanek does not forgive. Take revenge without mercy!'. When the Soviet 4th Army took over the town five days later, hardly a single inhabitant remained alive. Women were found nailed to barn doors after being stripped naked and gang raped, their bodies then used for target practice. Many women, and girls as young as eight years old, were raped so often and brutally that they died from this abuse alone. Children were shot indiscriminately and all those trying to flee were crushed to death under the treads of the Soviet tanks. Forty French prisoners-of-war were shot on the spot as spies after welcoming the Red Army as liberators. Seventy one women and one man were found in houses, all dead. All the women, including girls aged from eight to twelve, had been raped. In other East Prussian villages within the triangle Gumbinnen-Goldap-Ebenrode, the same scenes were witnessed, old men and boys being castrated and their eyes gouged out before being killed or burned alive. In nearby Metgethen, a suburb of Königsberg, recaptured by the German 5th Panzer Division, around 60 women were found in a demented state in a large villa. They had been raped on average 60 to 70 times a day. In nearly every home, the bodies of women and children were found raped and murdered. The bodies of two young women were found, their legs had been tied one limb each between two trucks, and then torn apart when the trucks were driven away in opposite directions. At Metgethen railway station, a refugee train from Konigsberg, consisting of seven passenger coaches, was found and in each compartment seven to nine bestially mutilated bodies were discovered. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, an ex captain in the Soviet Army, recalls, "All of us knew very well that if girls were German they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction" (Details of these, and other attrocities, are contained in the Eastern Documentation Section of the German Federal Archives at Koblenz).


wildboar,

Looks like you're again delighting us with your good old quote from George Duncan’s website:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html

And your eternal allegation that Soviet atrocities against German civilians were “pre-planned” by the Soviet government and/or the Soviet military high command. For that allegation, needless to say, you have so far shown no evidence whatsoever. I would again like to remind you of the writings of British historian Richard Overy, whom you like to quote. On pages 261 and following of his book Russia’s War, Overy writes:
Stalin was not ignorant of the behavior of Red Army soldiers, but it worried him little. When he was told of the treatment meted out to German refugees he was reported to have replied: ‘We lecture our soldiers too much; let them have some initiative,’ When the Yugoslav Communist, Milovan Djilas, complained to Stalin’s face that the Red Army was raping Yugoslav women he received a lecture on the Russian attitude to war:

You have, of course, read Dostoevsky? Do you see what a complicated thing is a man’s soul, man’s psyche? Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Stalingrad to Belgrade – over thousands of kilometers of his own devastated land, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? How can such a man react normally? And what is so awful in his having fun with a woman, after such horrors? You have imagined the Red Army to be ideal. And it is not ideal, nor can it be … The important thing is that it fights Germans …

Stalin adopted the language of oriental despotism: the multiple rape and murder of captured women became nothing more than ‘fun with a woman’; looting was transformed into taking ‘some trifle’. Stalin did not order the Red Army to commit atrocities against the German population, but he did nothing to prevent it. Ordinary soldiers treated atrocity as routine, a cruel perquisite of war. Alexandr Solshenitsyn, an artillery officer in East Prussia in 1945 shortly before his arrest, later recalled without comment the attitude of his comrades: ‘All of us knew very well that if the girls were German they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction. Had they been Polish girls or our own displaced Russian girls, they could have been chased naked around the garden and slapped on the behind …’ Only when this violence and disorder, generously fueled by the many German wine cellars liberated from fascism, threatened military discipline did the tide of barbarism ebb.

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#7

Post by Ovidius » 26 Apr 2002, 14:20

Do you see what a complicated thing is a man’s soul, man’s psyche? Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Stalingrad to Belgrade – over thousands of kilometers of his own devastated land, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? How can such a man react normally? And what is so awful in his having fun with a woman, after such horrors? You have imagined the Red Army to be ideal. And it is not ideal, nor can it be … The important thing is that it fights Germans …
Do you see what a complicated thing is a man’s soul, man’s psyche? Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Poland to the outskirts of Moscow, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? How can such a man react normally? And what is so awful in his having fun with a Russian woman, after such horrors? You have imagined the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS to be ideal. And they are not ideal, nor can they be … The important thing is that they fight Soviets … (plus British, Americans, and plenty others :mrgreen: )

~Ovidius

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Roberto
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#8

Post by Roberto » 26 Apr 2002, 16:52

Ovidius wrote:
Do you see what a complicated thing is a man’s soul, man’s psyche? Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Stalingrad to Belgrade – over thousands of kilometers of his own devastated land, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? How can such a man react normally? And what is so awful in his having fun with a woman, after such horrors? You have imagined the Red Army to be ideal. And it is not ideal, nor can it be … The important thing is that it fights Germans …
Do you see what a complicated thing is a man’s soul, man’s psyche? Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Poland to the outskirts of Moscow, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? How can such a man react normally? And what is so awful in his having fun with a Russian woman, after such horrors? You have imagined the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS to be ideal. And they are not ideal, nor can they be … The important thing is that they fight Soviets … (plus British, Americans, and plenty others :mrgreen: )

~Ovidius
Apart from the fact that the Soviets had been through a lot more and worse by the time they reached Germany than the Germans had by the time they reached Moscow and Leningrad - not to mention the fact that the Germans had been the aggressors - , the pattern of horrors was not exactly the same, was it?

German atrocities against prisoners of war and civilians in the Soviet Union were largely organized and part of policies decided upon at high levels of command.

Hence the much higher death toll.

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#9

Post by Laurent » 26 Apr 2002, 17:35

[quote="Ovidius]Well, then, imagine a man who has fought from Poland to the outskirts of Moscow, across the dead bodies of his comrades and dearest ones? [/quote]

Dearest ones ? How much German women and children were killed in Russia in 1941 ?

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