Treblinka Perpetrators

[murx]

Translation

Kurt Franz, born n 1914, was commander of the Treblinka extermnation camp. The High Court in Duesseldorf sentenced him, based on charges of "assistance to murder in at least 300.000 cases, murder on 139 persons in at least 35 cases, and attempted murder" to life in prison. Those 300.000 persons had been gassed under his command, 139 persons died by his own hands. Kurt Franz meanwhile had been released from prison. In a German court he never had confessed being the former commander of Treblinka.

Interviewer: Mr. Franz, I assume it was clear that Trebblinka was an extermination camp.
Franz: Yes, people died there or had been taken their lifes

I:By gas?
F:By gas

I:How was the gas produced?
F: I haven't seen that but I knew there was a French truck. If I am not wrong some Saurer or Saurer Engine. And there exhaust gas was lead into the cells. The cells had been on the side.

I: How long did the people suffer?
F: I cannot say this, you know. It was said 4 to 10 minutes. But I cannot say it. I was not in charge up there. Some Oschafü Matthes was in charge, but he was not a real OchaFü, more a police officer, in Treblinka all were police officers whereas in Belzec some SS officer named Nieman did the work, which was done in Treb. by this man.

I:You have seen gassings in two camps? Not only "seen", you attended gassings?
F:I know that it had happened, I know it. I wasn*t sent to Treblinka to be told those things. Everything was done secretlely, under camouflage. But I knew it, I saw it, I was pissed, even in Treblinka.

I:You ddn't want to assist?
F:I didn't want to particpate and that meant death to Jirmann and it ment death to this Ukrainian Alexejew Pior, who was shot then.

I: I have here in front of me a Treblinka plan. Can you show me how the gassing procedure happened?
F: People were driven iside by wagons. I think 20 wagons were fitting inside And then the doors were swept oen. Thosee were always Jews, even when I arrived there. If from Sangl or Eberl, I don't know. I never experienced Eberl. The the Jews were unloaded and led to this place, I don't remember having been sided by two huts or one but I think one. Those people had to enter the hut und undress. So far I can say that.

I: Strip naked?
F:Naked. And there was a corner where the women's hair was cut off. This was done by some Suchomel on whom I am really mad becase he had charged me. And then those Jews, and to be honest. I never saw children, were lead throughh the so called "tube", which was completely covered with tan, it was hidden like everything in the camp.They had an extra cmouflage command, led by someone named Südow, or so.He was responsible that no one could see a thing. The Jews were then led up here an entered the so called gas chamber. And there they were gassed. That is a fact. From this positon I do not move.

I: Did you see the montains of dead bodies?
F:No. I hadn't seen it. I knew from where I probably could have seen it but that would have meant to peak through a hole or cut some wire: Ididn't go there. I was disgusted. I cannot stand such things. I couldn't see people burn. Thhey had been put here on a roast and burnt. Here they were burnt.

I:What happened to the ashes?
F:I cannot say. There was initially no roast. Whem I was thre there was none. Some other Unterführer made the roast. Before that there were graves (pits), in which the corpses were laid. By crane. They came from the gas chamber and had been carried to the pits. That's how I see it. And after the roast was available they had been torn out by crane and put on the roast...Jews done that...I didn't take notice of it..They had been placed on it...even the ones out of the soil...and they were burnt. And then there were sieves. Anglulated ones like for sieving sand...and the ashes were sieved through it, and what was remained as concret was mangled and whipped until all...

I: Disappeared?
F:Disappeared.


I: Have you seen "furuncle SS"?
F: Who?

I:Furuncle SS, someone named Booz, he was in the SS not wanting to participate in gassing, so he scratched own furuncles until they were infected. He then was discharged

F: In Treblinka?
I:Yes

F: Never heared of.

I: Yoj said the women's hair was cit off. Haven't it been the gold jews who took the jewelery and the dentists, tearing off the tooth.You know from that?

F: I never heared from something alike. I haven't seen it.That was an internal affair,not my business. Up there "Matthes was the responsible, up there where the Jews were killed, Küttner was the one in charge. I was in charge for the guards. That was the assignment. This Küttner din't take orders fom me. He was polce officer in the highest rank.

I: Did you see how the items were delivered, like the gold?

F: In this cotage the clothing was sorted. That was the clothing cottage. Where the rail track was. Those garments were simply stockpiled. By some working jews...garments and glasses...you could see that. Without problem, it was in the middle of the place.


I: from which army branches did the German forces derive?
F: All from police with very few exceptions of general SS


I: Waffen SS?
F: I was Waffen SS and probably one more person named Willi Mätzig, aka Bubi. He was the paymaster. He was inm charge, he was Waffen SS.

I: The rest Ukrainians?
F: Ukrainians and German speaking ones you cannot call Ukraainians .

I: Volksdeutsch?
F: Theywere Russian and came from behind Ural. They spoke fuently Wuerrttemberg accent. They had lived there longtime like their parents and grand parents. They spoke perfect German. Probably Volksdeutsche. in former times we nicknamed them "booty Germans".

I: THose mass murderers happened half a century ago, what do you think of them today?
F: If I had known what would have come after I changed from the Wehrmacht to the SS - never would I have changed.For the simple reason I cannot stand what happened there, this Treblinka and Belzec.

I:Why were those people killed? Crimiinals?
F: What why? I never ever have had any problems with jews. And I have to insist that the co accuser, some Dr. Neuman had testified that bI had been in his appartment long ago having threatened him- I didn't know this man. KI didn't have anything against jews - I played handball with them in Ratingen and I played with them in Düsseldof against Makabi. I hadn't any dspute. I don't see differences between catholics, protestants or jews. I had a jewish friend named Ballach who own a pub in Ratingen, that is a friend of mine. When I was young I went into some dancing club called Hirsch - in the age of 18 or 19. The owners name was also Hirsch, Kurt Hirsch. It was my friend. I had no reason to kill those people.


In Belhzec and Treblinka tens of thousands were killed, women children and men. What did you think?
F: I was aganst. In the beginning nobod yknew it anyways. Some pits were dug. In 1942 when I came nothing happened.
I didn't know what the pits were for. There was an old border line - the old austrian-russian borderline- between Belzec and Rawaruska. That I knew. I didn't know what was to come.


I: What wold youu do receiving the same orders today?
F:never ever

[trespasser07]

Thank you for the translation murx i owe you one! Franz is lying about what he knew I believe as he was very vicious in the camp. I have also heard that he made a crazy statement at the trial that he was out of camp during the revolt to allow the inmates to escape! Seems the defendants blames him for most of the horrors.

[trespasser07]

I got this off the excellent holocaust-history website, think it is the whole Treblinka Trial process. Its too much to translate but anyone know where it can be viewed in english? Many Thanks.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/german ... teil.shtml

[little grey rabbit]

I believe you may find the substantial parts of the Judgement (which is what you have linked to is) translated as an appendix in the book Treblinka by Alexander Donats.

Its been a while since I read it, but I do remember some interesting animal psychology vis a vis Barry the Dog

[trespasser07]

I will try and find a copy thanks! Im guessing no one would want to undertake translating all of this lol!

[trespasser07]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of "The Death Camp Treblinka" by Alexander Donat for a good price?

[Eddy Marz]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of "The Death Camp Treblinka" by Alexander Donat for a good price?

About $30 on Amazon (second hand, I think)

[trespasser07]

Cheers Eddy! Have you read it and if so is it informative about the trial?

[Eddy Marz]

Hi trespasser07;

No, unfortunately, I haven't read it . Although I've been very interested in Aktion Reinhard, my focus point is Gerstein, Belzec, and Wirth.

Sorry

[trespasser07]

Well Eddy I would always listen to anything you had to say about that im sure you have great info, acording to Franz his friend was executed there by Wirth..

[Eddy Marz]

acording to Franz his friend was executed there by Wirth..

Hi trespasser07;

Actually, I don’t have any precise memory of ever reading about Wirth killing Kurt Franz’s best friend (who was he?) but it’s by no means impossible… The list of Wirth’s evil deeds and savage behavior is long, and stretches from his Kommissariat 5 days in Stuttgart, through T4 and Aktion Reinhard, down to OZAK… He often hit his own SS personnel and Ukrainian auxiliaries and all post-war descriptions made by former AR unit members are unanimous: a man on a mission, mad with fury, callous, loud and vulgar, extremely violent, displaying total disregard for human life.

According to Michael Tregenza and Robin O’Neil, he shot a Ukrainian auxiliary out of hand, apparently in Chelmno.

• During Belzec’s initial period, Wirth ordered SS-Scharführer Erich Fuchs to fix showerheads on the gas chamber ceilings. Perhaps not very bright, Fuchs questioned the order because there was no water inlet. Wirth flew into a rage, beat him with his whip, and ordered two other SS-Scharführers – Erwin Fichtner and Johann Niemann – to shoot Fuchs on the spot. The two men managed, somehow, to persuade Wirth to give up the idea.
(Belzec Trial/AR-Z 252: vs. Josef Oberhauser et al. : Statement by Erich Fuchs)

• In Treblinka, Wirth ordered SS-Scharführer Erwin Kainer to supervise the clearing of a 5m high pile of corpses resting on a pool of blood, excrements, and maggots. Kainer was so shocked, and so terrorized at the idea of Wirth’s reaction in case of refusal that he shot himself in the head
(Tregenza Archive Lublin/Franz Suchomel, Christian Wirth/private report/Altötting 1972).

• Waffen-SS Sanitätsoffizier Bachaus committed a Rassenschande (lit. 'race shame') - by associating with a Jewess in the Poniatowa camp hospital. Wirth and Oberhauser, came to the camp and arrested Bachaus. After interrogating him for some hours, Wirth placed Bachaus before the SS/Police Court in Lublin, where he was tried, found guilty, and executed.

That’s all I have…

[trespasser07]

Wow he really was a commited anit-semite I see Eddy, I can understand why the AR staff were afraid of him! I would like someday to visit the sites of AR perhaps to view the museums etc.

[trespasser07]

Eddy here is the Belzec Trial process for Josef Oberhauser

http://www.holocaust-history.org/german ... teil.shtml

[trespasser07]

Here is a good source;
http://deathcamps.org/euthanasia/franzstory.html

[trespasser07]

http://www.deathcamps.org/euthanasia/mentzstory.html

http://www.deathcamps.org/euthanasia/ha ... story.html