Treblinka Perpetrators

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carman
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by carman » 20 May 2011 19:00

amazing trial picture,however I think the caption above Miete and Mentz is backward,according to the photos i've seen on deathcamps.org

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 22 May 2011 18:41

Did the Treblinka staff get on in general or cautious around each other?
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

carman
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by carman » 24 May 2011 15:35

that is a good question and i'm trying to learn as much as i can. the pictures I've seen on deathcamps.org and H.E.A.R.T. showing them on holiday one would surmise they got along. I 've seen a couple of pictures of Mentz and Miete sitting together apart from the rest drinking a beer? Also the posted trial photo looks similar to a reunion photo of people that haven't seen each other in a while,thats why I would guess Kurt Franz is smiling,,,,but just a guess on my part

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 24 May 2011 15:51

Thanks carman, I know that the Sobibor staff were on good terms as all had rings made of gold by the prisoners to show this bond!
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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Eddy Marz
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by Eddy Marz » 24 May 2011 15:58

After reading testimonies and trial transcripts, I would say that they behaved like the people they were : not a very educated bunch, drinking alot, united in a mutual fear of Christian Wirth, desperately (for most) getting on with the work in the hope that they may be posted somewhere else but knowing full well that there may have been a policy for getting rid of them after AR (Wirth tried to get the truth out of Blankenberg from the KdF during OZAK). From the trial transcripts, it stands out that they were pretty much united in the face of the administration to a certain degree, but also ready to shun any one who went overboard with criminal behavior and, paradoxically, any one who bust under the strain. There must have been - even if they somehow 'got used to it' - a great stress linked to the daily task of mass killing and conditions it generated (vermin, insects, poisoned ground water etc.). Many of them, including Stangl, had to drink heavily to get to sleep

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 24 May 2011 16:02

I guess they alienated Franz in the courtroom then Eddy due to his behaviour. I'm not sure of Stangl's behaviour but reading the book on him he seemed quite harmless compared to the others. This was not true of Wirth, Hering and Franz Reichsleiter if i'm correct?.

Very interesting subject hope more posts continue!

Many thanks
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Eddy Marz
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by Eddy Marz » 24 May 2011 17:39

I would say the best book on Franz Stangl is Gitta Sereny's 'Into That Darkness'... Although Stangl was considered as the 'best camp commandant', because he kept the place 'clean' and orderly, and had a very good 'output', he was - according to most survivors - rarely seen in the camp and had practically no contact with the inmates. He accepted the extermination of the Jews as an inescapable State policy and was therefore pretty apathetic concerning the fate of his victims. He didn't feel completely guilty of the murders because, as far as he was concerned, the 'intent was missing'. However, from Sereny's interviews, we gather that he did have qualms about his 'job', and this created heavy tensions between him and his wife.

Christian Wirth was a violent, loud, and rabid killer, a respected police 'kommissar', a terrific organiser, and probably had direct entries to the KdF, the details of which are yet unclear. Hering was an old acquaintance of Wirth (they had served together in the Stuttgart Kriminalpolizei), and also a ruthless killer but certainly not on a grand scale like Wirth. Hauptsturmführer Reichleitner knew Wirth from his T4 days in Hartheim. He was a sadist and a killer.
gitta_11.jpg
Gitta Sereny interviewing Franz Stangl in the 70's
shortly before his death.
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trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 24 May 2011 21:02

Great pic Eddy! The SS Leader certainly picked the correct men for AR! This may be a silly question but was there any reason why Gitta Sereny only interviewed Stangl? I only ask because the other Treblinka men convicted where also at the Dusseldorf prison.

I thank you for your insightful input.
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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Eddy Marz
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by Eddy Marz » 25 May 2011 07:48

trespasser07 wrote:was there any reason why Gitta Sereny only interviewed Stangl? I only ask because the other Treblinka men convicted where also at the Dusseldorf prison.
Hi Trespasser07;
The most important reason, I would say, was that Stangl was the only Aktion Reinhard death camps commander to be ever brought to trial. He had been in contact on an administrative level with Globocnik and Wirth (both dead), had briefly commanded Sobibor prior to Treblinka, and was therefore the obvious choice as source of information as opposed to other characters notorious for their evil behavior but of lesser importance. He was also, on a human level, an interesting case study, starting-off in life with a 'real' job (master weaver), then entering the police, being posted to T4 and, ultimately to AR camps. His family life was harmonious prior to AR, and the bond with his wife was very sturdy (as the interviews make clear). His couple reached a very high straining point however when, on the one hand, she discovered what her husband was really up to and, on the second hand, when Stangl himself began to change and drink heavily.

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 25 May 2011 09:33

I always wondered what would have happened to Wirth had he survived the war Eddy. I think your right Stangl had a lot of insight regrding AR and was the best man to get answers from regarding the operation.
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

little grey rabbit
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by little grey rabbit » 26 May 2011 11:47

trespasser07 wrote:Great pic Eddy! The SS Leader certainly picked the correct men for AR! This may be a silly question but was there any reason why Gitta Sereny only interviewed Stangl? I only ask because the other Treblinka men convicted where also at the Dusseldorf prison.

I thank you for your insightful input.
She also interviewed Suchomel, but only by letter - I think he only agreed to meet with her once.

Suchomel acted as a sort of corrective to anything Stangl might say if he veered off script a bit - and therefore probably wanted time to consult as to what might be the appropriate line to take.

This is from page 195, which illustrates the role Suchomel was called on to play
"Tchechia Mandel was the only real red-blonde in the camp," said Suchomel, whose assiduous memory of individulas and events is remarkable. "She was a really intelligent distinguished girl, very proud and courageous. She was one of the few Jews all of us Germans addressed as 'Sie' rather than 'Du'. Steiner in his book said she slept with Germans - but never never did she do that. She was Kapo Rakowski's girl friend - he was the chief Jew of the camp and she became pregnant by him and had an abortion. Tchechia was the daughter of an industrialist in Galicia - she was extremely well eucated. I was told later how she died; I didn't see it myself; it happened after I left Treblinka. It was quite a while after the revolt; only a few girls were still there weiting on the remnant of the German personnel who were liquidating the camp. The Unterscharfuehrer who was in charge - he got up after lunch that day and apparently said to the three girls, 'Well girls, it's your turn now' [jetzt muss es ja einmal dran gehen]. And Tchechia laughed and said, 'Aha, I never did believe your fairy-tale promises, you pigs. Go ahead, kill us. Just do me a favour and don't ask us to undress.' One of the girls, she was also called Tchechia - 'little Tchechia' they called her - she cried, and Tchechia said, 'Don't cry, don't do them the favour. Remember, you are a Jewess.' She was really something - somebody, you know." The position Suchomel has adopted as an admirer of the Jews is as remarkable as his memory, and psychologically interesting.)
Just out of curiosity, have you chosen the book you are going to invest in? Me and a few other members having been running a sweepstake.

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 26 May 2011 12:31

Hey thanks for the reply i'm am going to by the book by Alexander Donat (as soon as I can find a cheap copy of it haha).

Thanks
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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Hecht
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by Hecht » 26 May 2011 17:20

Hello Guys,

I would need the side mugshot of Josef Oberhauser, any help here?

Many thanks

john h
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by john h » 26 May 2011 20:46

Trespasser07 if you want a copy in english of Treblinka trial i have two different records type in jewish virtual library and that will give you one and the other is on the arc web site just type in treblinka trials it also covers the trial of Josef (sepp) Hirtreiter the first Treblinka defendent to be brought to trial

trespasser07
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Re: Treblinka Perpetrators

Post by trespasser07 » 27 May 2011 09:34

Cheers John can you post the links on here?
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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