German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Germany

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Germany

Post by Attrition » 25 Jul 2012 18:17

https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=36602

Volker Langbehn, Mohammad Salama, eds. German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Germany. New York: Columbia University Press, 2011. 327 pp. $89.50 (cloth), ISBN 978-0-231-14972-3; $29.50 (paper), ISBN 978-0-231-14973-0.

Reviewed by Kristin Bertrand (Binghamton University)
Published on H-War (July, 2012)
Commissioned by Margaret Sankey

New Perspectives on German Colonialism

Although the short-lived period of German colonialism (1884-1914) once remained on the margins of academic research, it has become a topic of serious investigation in recent years. Holocaust scholars in particular grapple with the question of continuity, assessing to what extent--if at all--the origins of the Nazi genocide can be found in the colonial experiment. The German military’s conduct in southwest Africa during the Herero and Nama War (1904-1907), which resulted in the near total annihilation of the Herero population, stands at the center of this debate over continuity. While some scholars go so far as to posit a direct link between the two incidents, others stress the dissimilarities between colonial and Nazi violence. An important component to this discussion rests on the question of how different German colonial rule was from that of other colonizers who, after all, did not instigate genocide on the European continent. German Colonialism, edited by Volker Langbehn and Mohammad Salama, is a valuable contribution to this ever-growing body of scholarship. This collection contains thirteen stimulating essays that approach the question of continuity from multiple vantage points. Unfortunately, this review can only discuss a few of the essays in any depth; nonetheless, it will attempt to highlight the diversity of interpretations found within the collection. Ctd....

Michate
Member
Posts: 1427
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 10:50
Location: Germany

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Michate » 31 Jul 2012 15:42

My dear, is there still anyone left in academia's history departments who does not talk or write like a proto-Bolshevik ideologue :roll: ?

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 31 Jul 2012 17:47

Not many, most were purged and replaced by fascists.

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 31 Jul 2012 18:42

Matthew P. Fitzpatrick. Liberal Imperialism in Germany: Expansionism and Nationalism, 1848-1884. Berghahn Books, 2008. 248 pp. $99.95 (cloth), ISBN 978-1-84545-520-0.

https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=33612

Reviewed by J. Laurence Hare (University of Arkansas)
Published on H-German (July, 2012)
Commissioned by Benita Blessing

German Liberals and the Dream of Empire

Studies of Germany's overseas empire have long been shaped by the incongruence between the country's meager colonial footprint and a sense of the colonies' more momentous significance at home. Thus, while many historians wonder whether German colonial history warrants the tremendous scholarly attention it has received in recent years, others continue to be drawn to the ways in which the colonial experience transcended the material reality of Germany's empire. Mary Evelyn Townsend recognized this situation as early as 1930, when she proclaimed that Germany possessed a "rich colonial tradition," despite its short-lived lease on territories abroad.[1] And for Hans-Ulrich Wehler, colonial ventures were central to domestic politics, informing notions of "social imperialism" that have since lain at the heart of key historiographical debates on the Kaiserreich.[2] Add to these names that of Matthew P. Fitzpatrick, whose work scarcely leaves German shores to find the intersection of German imperialism and national liberalism. National liberals, of course, have long been recognized as supporters of German colonization, but Fitzpatrick wants us to understand just how deep the attachment to imperialism ran. What is unique about this approach is that it seeks connections in the years before 1884, when the German state first staked an imperial claim. This approach is a rather interesting departure from other studies, which have looked no further than the founding of the German Empire in 1871 for the origins of German colonialism. It also launches Fitzpatrick into key debates on the strength of the bourgeois liberal movement in the years after 1848. While Fitzpatrick's book is rough around the edges and falls far short of a comprehensive analysis, it nevertheless makes a compelling case for the intimate connections between liberalism and imperialism in Germany and the power of both in shaping German national identity. Ctd....

User avatar
Treve
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 06:05

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Treve » 01 Aug 2012 04:20

Michate wrote:is there still anyone left in academia's history departments who does not talk or write like a proto-Bolshevik ideologue :roll: ?
This is one of the most misleading comments I have seen on this forum.

Ivy League university presses do not publish works by 'proto-Bolsheviks'.

Before making such unwarranted statements you should inform yourself first about the authors in question:

http://bss.sfsu.edu/meis/Faculty/msalama.html


http://www.sfsu.edu/~german/?q=volker-langbehn

This is not an extremist forum.

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 01 Aug 2012 07:36

Bolsheviks aren't extremist, they're statists like every other form of conservative.

User avatar
Treve
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 06:05

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Treve » 01 Aug 2012 11:59

No one referred to Bolsheviks as extremists. The reference was to the book you posted and the reaction it elicited.

Michate
Member
Posts: 1427
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 10:50
Location: Germany

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Michate » 02 Aug 2012 08:28

I was referring to the verbiage used in the review.
Ivy League university presses do not publish works by 'proto-Bolsheviks'.
Obviously sometimes they do.

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 02 Aug 2012 09:36

Wouldn't they be palaeo-bolsheviks now?

User avatar
Treve
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 06:05

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Treve » 02 Aug 2012 09:42

Michate wrote:I was referring to the verbiage used in the review.
I am afraid what you wrote was not restricted to the review:
Michate wrote:My dear, is there still anyone left in academia's history departments who does not talk or write like a proto-Bolshevik ideologue :roll: ?
That is not just preposterous but also incorrect and lowers the standard of this forum. It is also demeaning of academia.

In regard to my statement: 'Ivy League university presses do not publish works by 'proto-Bolsheviks'', your response is:
Michate wrote: Obviously sometimes they do.
Since you claim this is 'obvious' could you please provide a specific and concrete example of work published by Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell or Princeton universities written by what you call ''proto-Bolsheviks'?

.

George Lepre
Host - Foreign volunteers section
Posts: 725
Joined: 13 Aug 2002 21:39
Location: United States

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by George Lepre » 04 Aug 2012 06:45

Hi Everyone -

Let's keep it civil here.

There has been quite a bit of new scholarship regarding the German colonial experience in Africa. The excellent German publisher Links Verlag has produced TWO different Reihen on the subject.

http://www.christoph-links-verlag.de/in ... kat_id=162

http://www.christoph-links-verlag.de/in ... kat_id=186

What does everyone think?

Best regards,

George

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 04 Aug 2012 11:03

I wouldn't mind translations, I got the OH for Togo & Cameroon recently, so a comparison would help.

User avatar
Karstenh83
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 17 Dec 2005 15:52
Location: Germany

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Karstenh83 » 05 Aug 2012 05:14

"....the origins of the Nazi genocide can be found in the colonial experiment...."

and

"...An important component to this discussion rests on the question of how different German colonial rule was from that of other colonizers who, after all, did not instigate genocide on the European continent...."

Can me someone explain the truely goal of that investigation?? I think it is very questionable to compare the Nazi genocide with the colonial experiment!
Weren´t the first concentration camps in South africa? Some nice links you will find here:

http://www.google.de.anonymize-me.de/?c ... zrjj1-x2df

What about the genocide in India, Africa or USA conducted by british or french troops and in the last case by US-troops?? A lot of examples you will find here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Colonialism is a crime and the Nazi genocide was also a crime but in my opinion it is very questionable to compare the Nazi genocide with the german genocide in Southwestafrica! We can not find solutions for the Nazi genocide in GSWA. The war in Southwestafrica (during 1904-08) was typical for colonialism and you will find a lot for examples in the last link.

I won´t read the book but the few sentences I read awakens the feeling like: Only the germans were every time racists and the nazi genocide had his origin in German-Southwestafrica or German-Eastafrica or may be in Cameroon. And the racial laws of 1935.... did they also have their origin in the german colonialism?? BAD GERMANS!!! ;-)

Such books don´t have any kind of historical investigation for me. The nazi genocide and the crimical colonialsim are for me two very different things which we can not compare. The only consensus is: Both are crimical and they did NOT happen again!

Best wishes

Karsten

User avatar
Attrition
Member
Posts: 3662
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 22:53
Location: England

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by Attrition » 05 Aug 2012 07:12

"Experiment" isn't a word I'd use, "crime" fits better. I think that study of Europe and its settler offshoots and their crimes ouside Europe (such as the invention of concentration camps and death marches by Andrew Jackson) can shed much light on the practice of extermination and its connexion to the processes of rule in the metropole. I suspect for example that the relative peace in the northern hemisphere since 1945 is dependent on permanent war in the southern.

User avatar
danebrog
Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 17 Nov 2008 15:59

Re: German Colonialism: Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Ger

Post by danebrog » 06 Aug 2012 12:53

The initial link to the Book "Race, the Holocaust, and Postwar Germany" seems interesting in so far as here are both views are compared.

The link-up "from Windhoek/Colonialism to Auschwitz" seems often arbitrarily constructed - as some Authors completely disregard the public and political upheavals between 1918 and 1932 in Germany who were far more influential and others use a clearly tendentious style a.s.o., a.s.o....
(Sometimes - my personal opinion !! - they seemed to be just political extremely correct "Trittbrettfahrer" with more political than historical interests)
Uwe Schulte-Vahrendorff for example wrote a Book about Lettow-Vorbeck and (far too often to be accidental) used citations in a clearly constructed context to prove his own prejudiced thesis about LV ;-)
THESE "Authors" do a really bad service for any objective discussion - and this actually reminds in some aspects to communist historiography with it´s single-minded interpretation of facts

At least I will obtain the Book "attrition" posted - for further study about this highly controversial topic, as I am more interested in colonial history than in any ideologies

just my two cents

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”