Can we have facts and figures instead of hollow speculations, please?Scott Smith wrote:You mine the gravel and then you spread it on roads all over Poland, see. I never said it took hundreds of thousands to shovel gravel at Treblinka. But if you look at Kammler's depots you can see that there are plenty of labor projects. And at a death rate of say 10% a month you need a lot of labor to feed this "machine."Roberto wrote:No, it was processed by a labor force of several thousand people. I hope Smith is not trying to tell us that they needed 713,555 people within half a year to mine gravel. That’s a lot more than were used in the building of the Soviet combine of Magnitogorsk if I’m not mistaken. I don’t know if any construction of mining project in history ever involved so enormous a labor force, but the little quarry at Treblinka I can impossibly have required more than a tiny fraction of that.Scott Smith wrote:And all that gravel mined at the quarry of Treblinka I (about 2 km away) didn't get put on the Polish roads by elves or space aliens.
Just how many people did all those labor camps of Mr. Kammler's need within the period of time in question?
And if any of those taken to Treblinka are supposed to have worked at any of those building camps, why is there not a shred of evidence in this direction?
Why does no piece of documentary evidence on the Reinhard(t) camps refer to these building camps, whereas all refer to Treblinka and/or Belzec and/or Sobibor as final destinations? Some are even more explicit, namely the entry in the "War Diary No. 1, daily report from Military Commander in the Generalgouvernement" shown under
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... strow1.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... strow2.jpg
which under the date 24.10.1942 records the following:
My translation:OK Ostrow meldet, dass die Juden in Treblinka nicht ausreichend beerdigt seien und infolgedessen ein unerträglicher Kadavergeruch die Luft verpestet.
Local Commander Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not sufficiently buried and thus an unbearable smell of corpses befouls the air.
and the Stroop Report, with entries like the following, translated under
Of the overall total of 56,065 captured Jews, about 7,000 have been destroyed in the course of the large-scale action in the former Jewish living quarter. 6,929 Jews were destroyed by transport to T. II, so that overall, 13,929 Jews were destroyed. It is estimated that, in addition to the number of 56,065, 5 - 6,000 Jews were destroyed by explosions and fire.
clearly showing that "T.II", the Treblinka extermination camp, was a place where people were sent for the purpose of being "destroyed".
Why did no defendant at any trial ever mention even temporary transfer from Treblinka et al to Kammler's building camps, although this would have been convenient to his defense?
Why did Korherr write in his report that the people sent to the Reinhard(t) camps had been subject to "special treatment", before being compelled by Himmler to claim that they had been "transported to the Russian East" instead?
Not to mention the fact that it would have been rather difficult to accommodate hundreds of thousands of people at a relatively small place like Treblinka for any period of time. The comparatively enormous Auschwitz-Birkenau complex never housed more than 100,000 people at a time, IIRC, and those bunched up there didn't exactly feel like they had plenty of space at their disposal.
Looks like we have here another of those "Revisionist" theories resting on nothing other than wishful thinking.
Smith is a poor imitator of his peer Ralph Marquardt. What happened to Mr. "CatScan", by the way?Scott Smith wrote: It's not quite as sexy as gaschambers with peepholes but it "works."
Smith’s reference to concentration camp inmates doing murderous forced labor as "the Reich’s enemies" is duly taken not of.Scott Smith wrote: One of the things that Professor Allen argues in his book The Business of Genocide is that the truth is actually far more sinister than the lies of Speer and the canonical story which makes the SS the "alibi" for a nation. Allen argues that far from the SS and Himmler trying to "infiltrate" German business, due to the war and the intolerable labor shortage, German industry actually came courting a reluctant SS, which would have preferred to use its cheap prisoner laborers simply to bake bricks in unremunerative and marginally-productive Buchenwald kilns and whatnot supplying its utopian housing settlements built to National Socialist concepts of aesthetics contrary to "the salesman's point-of-view."
With the war, however, all of that SS "can-do" spirit was translated into mobilizing the Reich's enemies for a maximum effort at victory,
Says Smith. Did any of his gurus tell him this, or can he quote a reliable source in support of his assertions?Scott Smith wrote:one wheelbarrow of concrete at a time. About 10,000 died digging the V-2 rocket assembly tunnels.
By way of comparison, when the Hoover Dam was built using cheap expendable workers during the Depression the offical death toll was 112 (although hundreds may have suffered health problems from exposure to diesel exhaust in the tunnels). The Hoover dam was built in the aesthetic of Art Deco and is also a rather impressive feat of engineering. No bodies buried in the concrete either according to the dam docents.
Of course, contrary to popular belief about Speer's "apolitical technocrats" corrupted by Himmler, the meat-grinder of Nordhausen was not built to any kind of SS aesthetic-standard other than a simple desire to win the war at any cost and complete unconcern for the internal enemies of the Reich (naturally).
Nor were all SS projects necessarily meat-grinders. The death-rate of the workers actually assembling the V-weapons was about the same as ordinary civilian production workers in other aspects of manufacture. The danger came more from Allied bombing than the SS in this case.
It wouldn’t occur to Smith that exposing forced laborers to enemy attacks on a military target was as criminal as having slaves or prisoners of war man the artillery in battle when under sniper fire, of course.
All very wonderful, assuming that Smith's rendering of Allen is not fraught with the usual "Revisionist" distortion and misrepresentation.Scott Smith wrote:Of course, if one got arbitrarily transferred to the gangs digging tunnels and building roads then...
Zwangsarbeiter in action manufacturing V components at Planet Dora...
But this beating about the bush (or shall we call it changing subjects?) doesn’t get us anywhere near an answer to my above questions.