Ribbentrop and crimes against humanity

[timoa]

Actually, you should probably thank the Germans that you don't have to speak Russian

I thought about this before, should I be angry at Russians because they attacked Finland but then of course they needed to get Finland as a buffer because Germany was a threat to them. Not just to attack finland for "lebensraum" or some other mad excuse.

So I'm not sure if finnish people should be thankful to Germany because they helped us out of situation caused by Germany itself.

by they way, we might be getting a bit off topic here

[Scott Smith]

By they way, we might be getting a bit off topic here

I know. I'm one of the worst Off-Topic offenders.

Actually, you should probably thank the Germans that you don't have to speak Russian

I thought about this before, should I be angry at Russians because they attacked Finland but then of course they needed to get Finland as a buffer because Germany was a threat to them. Not just to attack finland for "lebensraum" or some other mad excuse.

So I'm not sure if finnish people should be thankful to Germany because they helped us out of situation caused by Germany itself.

Finland was part of the Russian Empire before 1918 (as was Poland). I don't see how Germany had anything to do with the Soviet attack in 1939. Finland was not a buffer-zone to Germany. And Germany agreeing not to attack Russia, even if the Baltic countries were invaded by the Soviets, is hardly Germany's fault.

What, was Germany going to go to war to save the Baltics if they were attacked by the Russians? If this happened and she had, the Allies would have declared war on Germany--thus getting the war that they wanted.

[Roberto]

By they way, we might be getting a bit off topic here

I know. I'm one of the worst Off-Topic offenders.

Actually, you should probably thank the Germans that you don't have to speak Russian

I thought about this before, should I be angry at Russians because they attacked Finland but then of course they needed to get Finland as a buffer because Germany was a threat to them. Not just to attack finland for "lebensraum" or some other mad excuse.

So I'm not sure if finnish people should be thankful to Germany because they helped us out of situation caused by Germany itself.

Finland was part of the Russian Empire before 1918 (as was Poland). I don't see how Germany had anything to do with the Soviet attack in 1939. Finland was not a buffer-zone to Germany. And Germany agreeing not to attack Russia, even if the Baltic countries were invaded by the Soviets, is hardly Germany's fault.

What, was Germany going to go to war to save the Baltics if they were attacked by the Russians? If this happened and she had, the Allies would have declared war on Germany--thus getting the war that they wanted.

I stronly doubt that, after the licking they got in 1939/40, the Soviets would have made another try against Finland if the country had not participated in the attack against the Soviet Union on the German side. Which, if I well understood, is the point the timoa was making.

[timoa]

Scott:
I don't see how Germany had anything to do with the Soviet attack in 1939

There is a lot of things to be considered when discussing this of course, but Soviet U regarded Finland as pro Germany which, in the event of Germany attacking them would be bad since germans could use Finland [as a territory] to attack SU. At least SU claimed that Germany was the reason to take Finland, maybe it was used as an excuse just to invade, who knows what went inside Stalin's head.

Germany didn't stop the russian attack on winter war though, the people that I can thank that I'm not speaking russian is our grandfathers: they stopped russian invasion '39, whatever was the reason for aggressions.

[Scott Smith]

Scott:
I don't see how Germany had anything to do with the Soviet attack in 1939

There is a lot of things to be considered when discussing this of course, but Soviet U regarded Finland as pro Germany which, in the event of Germany attacking them would be bad since germans could use Finland [as a territory] to attack SU. At least SU claimed that Germany was the reason to take Finland, maybe it was used as an excuse just to invade, who knows what went inside Stalin's head.

Germany didn't stop the russian attack on winter war though, the people that I can thank that I'm not speaking russian is our grandfathers: they stopped russian invasion '39, whatever was the reason for aggressions.

That's true timoa; the Finns resisted the Soviets in 1939-40 (and the other Baltic States did not).

But having fought the Germans in WWII, the Soviets were in no position to challenge the West over Finland after 1945, and the Finns were able to keep a cautious neutrality between the West and the Soviet Bloc until the breakup of the SU.

Near the end of the war the Finns were able to get a separate peace with the Russians before Germany was defeated because time was of the essence for the Soviet drive westwards. The Allied Unconditional Surrender policy had only applied to the Germans because liquidating Germany as a superpower was the Allied aim in the first place, and if memory serves, the Western Allies never declared war on Finland when they joined the Germans in fighting the Russians in 1941 in order to get their own territories back (and no more). However, when the Germans declared war on Russia, Churchill was quick to connect the two conflicts as far as Germany was concerned. Russia's war was England's war, as far as Churchill was concerned, at least where it came to the Germans.

[timoa]

Yep.. It's quite a strange situation, Finland having german troops and fighting SU ie "allies" and still not being in war with UK/US etc. How did UK and US think of Finland at that time, anyone knows? I remember that during winter war Finland got lots of support [although no material or men] from allies.

Also I remember reading that Hitler said if someone [UK/France/etc] will send troops to Finland through some neutral country [Sweden/Norway?] they will face the fate of Poland.