US to deport alleged Nazi

[Marcus]

A judge in the United States has ordered the deportation of an elderly Ukrainian-born man accused of being a guard at a Nazi concentration camp during World War II.
Theodor Szehinskyj, 79, is accused of serving in a Waffen-SS Death's Head unit during the war and helping to guard prisoners in the Gross-Rosen, Sachsenhausen and Warsaw concentration camps from 1943 to 1945.
Tens of thousands of Jews were put to death in the camps.
A retired machinist, he has told investigators in Philadelphia he was a farmhand during the war and had nothing to do with the Nazis.
Mr Szehinskyj was born in what is now Ukraine, and has lived in the US since 1950.
His American citizenship was revoked nearly three years ago after a federal judge in Philadelphia found he had participated in "the Third Reich's closed culture of murder".
Correspondents say that the case against him was based, in part, on papers and lists found in Nazi archives.
The papers identified Mr Szehinskyj by name, birth date, hometown and his mother's maiden name.
Justice department lawyers have been trying to deport Mr Szehinskyj since September.
If the deportation order is not appealed, it is unclear how soon he would be forced to leave or where he might go.
The deportation order could send him to Ukraine, or alternatively to Poland or Germany.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2960397.stm

/Marcus

[Maple 01]

Goodo, time runs out for another rat!

-Nick

[Scott Smith]

These were not even extermination camps and Sachsenhausen was a green-triangle convict prison. Curious that this one guy had been to all of these. And that the judge has "determined" that being a Ukrainian who worked for the Germans--nevermind as an agricultural worker--he participated ipso facto in a "closed culture of murder" and therefore deserves to be deported. Szehinskyj would have been age 17 in 1941; he probably wore a monocle and carried a whip. I can't wait to miss the miniseries.
:roll:

[Maple 01]

Sachsenhausen was a green-triangle convict prison.

No it wasn't, when I got the guided tour in 1990 they mentioned political detainees and those on transit due 'special treatment' elsewhere in the system, or were the Germans making this up? You can't believe anything they said can't you? Naughty Germans, not like the good old Nazis eh?

Most common Colour codes seen at Sachenhausen,

Yellow (Star of David) - Jewish. This symbol was used prior to the camps in the ghettos and when Jews were in the general population

Pink - Gay men convicted under Paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the Reich Penal Code

Purple - Jehovah's Witnesses

Red - Political prisoners

Black - Asocial/Roma

Green - Criminals

And even if 'only' green triangles were there, does that make the KZ system OK by you Mr Smith?


Do yourself a favour, unless you've got real proof that the few ageing Nazis left are as pure as the driven snow/victims of western aggression /Jewish conspiracy/alien abduction/Soviet cogitation don't automatically rush to their defence when the law finally catches up with them. You begin to look like one of Pavlov's dogs, you hear 'Nazi' and you bark 'innocent'

Regards

-nick

[Scott Smith]

Sachsenhausen was a green-triangle convict prison.

No it wasn't, when I got the guided tour in 1990 they mentioned political detainees and those on transit due 'special treatment' elsewhere in the system, or were the Germans making this up? You can't believe anything they said can't you? Naughty Germans, not like the good old Nazis eh?

Most common Colour codes seen at Sachenhausen,

Yellow (Star of David) - Jewish. This symbol was used prior to the camps in the ghettos and when Jews were in the general population

Pink - Gay men convicted under Paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the Reich Penal Code

Purple - Jehovah's Witnesses

Red - Political prisoners

Black - Asocial/Roma

Green - Criminals

Actually the Holocaust™ museums are not exactly impartial sources, nor is the Bundestablishment on any matters related to National Socialism, the elephant hiding in their pantry. Besides, Höß said it was a convict camp--or perhaps he is only reliable when he is discussing killing millions with cans of insecticide.

And even if 'only' green triangles were there, does that make the KZ system OK by you Mr Smith?

Another false-dilemma. All nations have penal systems. Before the war the per-capital population incarcerated was less than in the United States, and probably a lot less than imperial Albion. In 1938 the KL population had quintupled to 24 thousand by convicting vagrants (black triangle), who counted for 70% of the inmates. Before the war, Jews made up no more than 10 percent of the inmates (which is an overrepresentation for their population for whatever reasons, criminal or political). The 30 thousand Jews detained for "protective custody" after Crystal Night were released after a few weeks.

Do yourself a favour, unless you've got real proof that the few ageing Nazis left are as pure as the driven snow/victims of western aggression /Jewish conspiracy/alien abduction/Soviet cogitation don't automatically rush to their defence when the law finally catches up with them. You begin to look like one of Pavlov's dogs, you hear 'Nazi' and you bark 'innocent'

Nonsense. It is up to YOU to prove wrongdoing. Even Party or SS membership is not proof of wrongdoing, athough some would surely like to think so.

And indeed, some desperately NEED to raise the Hue and Cry.

[Maple 01]

Nonsense. It is up to YOU to prove wrongdoing. Even Party or SS membership is not proof of wrongdoing, although some would surely like to think so.

We've been through this dance before Mr Smith, belonging to the SS was an immediately arrestable offence, failing to declare Nazi party or SS membership when applying for an entry visa to the US was also an offence. Yes or no? It's not up to me to prove anything, it's your government that's decided to deport him, are you saying they haven't followed the rules? If not why not challenge them in a court of law, if you will you've proved your point, if you don't challenge or loose you've failed.

Actually the Holocaust museums are not exactly impartial sources

and neither are the defenders of the Nazis, the sceptics™ and the revisionists™. Your argument is that anyone who disagrees with you must be lying, and, as you weren’t there that day (it was pouring with rain - you weren’t the one that looked like a Stasi man in the trench coat were you?) you can't possibly know all the tour guide said, so how can you immediately rubbish it? They might have gone of to say the camp was a conversant home where the inmates were looked after by nuns for all you know. Have you been there?

All nations have penal systems

but not all operate the KZ system do they? (At this point wake-up Dan and we can talk about the Boer war)

imperial Albion

That's a pub in Fox bay - surely they don't have that big a criminal problem - do you mean somewhere else?

As the joke goes, Denial is a river in Africa.

-Nick

[Maple 01]

I know Mr Smith will describe this as propaganda, lies and distortion but he did say all the inmates were criminals (Green triangles) and inferred that nothing out of the ordinary happened there – it was just another prison like every country has, however

On July 12th, 1938, the first barrack of the camp was built by 50 inmates transferred from Esterwegen. In August and September 1938, 900 inmates were once again transferred from Esterwegen to Sachsenhausen in order to take part in the construction of the camp. Due to the lack of food and the incredible cruelties of the SS, most of them died during this period. End of September, the "Konzentrazions Lager Sachsenhausen" was ready and the first political prisoners arrived in the camp.

Beside the wooden barracks built for the inmates, there were several buildings built from bricks for the SS as well as several factories where the prisoners were used for slave labor. Before the beginning of the World War 2, most of the inmates were German communist or German Jews. Just after the "Crystal Night," 1,800 Jews were jailed in Sachsenhausen and killed in the following weeks.

In September 1939, thousands of communists, social-democrats and former trade union leaders were arrested in Germany. 5,000 of them were sent to Sachsenhausen, as well as 900 Jews. End of September 1939, there were 8,384 prisoners in the camp. In November 1939, this number increased dramatically to 11,311 prisoners. At this time, the first Typhus epidemic started. Because the SS refused to give any medical care and due to the incredible lack of food, hundreds of inmates died in the following weeks. Until April 1940, the dead were sent to the crematories installed in Berlin, located 35 km from Sachsenhausen. In April 1940, the first crematory was built in Sachsenhausen.

Like all other Nazi concentration camps, the conditions of life in Sachsenhausen were incredibly barbaric. There were daily executions by shooting or hanging, i.e. 33 Polish inmates who were the survivors of a group of 320 inmates; or i.e. 88 Dutch civilian hostages killed by the SS in May 1942. A few weeks after the invasion of the Soviet Union by the Nazis, thousands of Soviet POWs were sent to Sachsenhausen. Most of them were killed by shooting or sent to the Punishment Company where they died by beatings, hangings, torture or starvation.

On January 31th, 1942, the SS forced a team of inmates to build the so-called "Station Z". This new installation was built for the extermination of the prisoners. On May 29th, 1942, the SS invited dozen of high ranked Nazi official for the inauguration of the new installation. In order to show them how the new installation was efficient, 96 Jews were killed by shooting. In March 1943, a gas chamber was added to the "Station Z". This gas chamber was used until the end of the war. The number of gassed victims is unknown because the transports for gassings were not registered in the entry registers of the camp.

In 1944 and begin of 1945, due to the Allied advance, the number of prisoners increased dramatically. On April 20th and 21th, 1945, because of the Soviet Army advance, 33,000 prisoners were forced to leave the camp on a Death March. They were divided in groups of 400. The SS intended to embark them on ships then sink those ships. Thousands of inmates died during this Death March. They were killed by shooting because they were too weak to walk.

The camp was liberated by a unit of the 47th Soviet Army on April 22th, 1945. The Soviet soldiers found only 3,000 survivors in the camp. This number included 1,400 women. Most of them were starving, ill and too weak to welcome their liberators. Like in several other camps, and despite of the medical cares they received, many inmates died in the days following the liberation.

Sachsenhausen is a museum today. It can be easily accessed from Berlin.

Not many 'green triangles' there, still, apology accepted old boy.

-nick

[Dan]

The camps were horrible, and those administrating those camps should pay the price.

[Marcus]

The camps were horrible, and those administrating those camps should pay the price.

Stay on topic, you know very well this is not the place to discuss the Boer War.

/Marcus

[Scott Smith]

You did not give a source for your quote. My source was Höß and Professor Michael Thad Allen in The Business of Genocide, which I am currently reading to review for Germar Rudolf's Revisionist magazine. Dachau was primarily for red-triangle political criminals and Sachsenhausen was primarily for green-triangle convicts. Everybody knows that--although there will no doubt be all categories represented.

In any case, I can't see the prewar KLs as being especially worse than American chain-gangs operating in the South in those days, and the execution rate was about the same. Many Americans would like to bring back the tough prison system, including the chain-gangs. Junior Bush's Texas leads the nation in executions. In this case Blacks and not Jews are statistically overrepresented.

Nonsense. It is up to YOU to prove wrongdoing. Even Party or SS membership is not proof of wrongdoing, although some would surely like to think so.

We've been through this dance before Mr Smith, belonging to the SS was an immediately arrestable offence, failing to declare Nazi party or SS membership when applying for an entry visa to the US was also an offence. Yes or no? It's not up to me to prove anything, it's your government that's decided to deport him, are you saying they haven't followed the rules? If not why not challenge them in a court of law, if you will you've proved your point, if you don't challenge or loose you've failed.

Nick, it hasn't been shown that Mr. Szehinskyj lied about anything. It has however been shown that Nazi hunters and particulary the OSI lie about their prey and their sacred duties. Curious that former KGB membership is not an immediately-arrestable offense. Smells like politics, doesn't it?

And nothing personal, but LOSE is always spelled in English with only one letter O--unless it was a Freudian slip meaning that the Nazis are on the loose. We can't have that!


Best Regards,
Scott

[Marcus]

Scott,

Please don't use the attachment function to add non-relevant images.

/Marcus

[Roberto]

You did not give a source for your quote. My source was Höß

Who was at Sachsenhausen before the war and thus knew little of what happened there during the war.

and Professor Michael Thad Allen in The Business of Genocide, which I am currently reading to review for Germar Rudolf's Revisionist magazine.

I couldn’t stand the man in the mirror if I wrote for such a publication, but to each his own. Let’s hope that Smith doesn’t misrepresent Prof. Allen’s statements in his review.

From the memorial site of Sachsenhausen concentration camp:

[…]Nach von ehemaligen Häftlingen schon im Sommer 1945 für eine sowjetische Ermittlungskommission angestellten Schätzungen wurden im KZ Sachsenhausen mehrere Zehntausend Menschen umgebracht. Sie starben an Hunger und Erschöpfung, Krankheiten und Kälte, wurden Opfer von Misshandlungen und öffentlichen Hinrichtungen, medizinischen Experimenten oder Massentötungsaktionen. Nachdem im Herbst 1941 mindestens 12.000 sowjetische Kriegsgefangene, unter denen sich viele Juden befanden, in einer provisorischen Genickschussanlage erschossen oder bei der Erprobung von Gaswagen ermordet worden waren, wurde im Frühjahr 1942 auf dem Industriehof eine Vernichtungsanlage mit Krematorium, Genickschussanlage und später eingebauter Gaskammer errichtet, die von der SS in Analogie zum Turm A als Eingangstor zynisch als "Station Z" bezeichnet und Ende Mai 1942 mit der Erschießung von 250 jüdischen Häftlingen und Geiseln "eingeweiht" wurde.[…]

Source of quote:

http://www.m77-berlin.de/sachsenhausen/ ... hichte.htm

My translation:

[…]According to the estimates made by former inmates for the Soviet investigation commission already in the summer of 1945 several tens of thousands of people were killed at Sachsenhausen concentration camp. They died of hunger and cold, became victims of ill-treatment or public executions, medical experiments or mass killing actions. After in the autumn of 1941 at least 12,000 Soviet prisoners of war, among whom there were many Jews, had been shot in a special neck shot installation or murdered in the testing of gas vans, an extermination installation with a crematorium, a neck shot facility and a later added gas chamber was built, which the SS, in analogy to Tower A as the entrance, cynically called “Station Z” and inaugurated at the end of May 1942 with the shooting of 250 Jewish inmates and hostages.[…]

Some summaries of West German trials related to Sachsenhausen concentration camps, from the Justiz and NS Verbrechen site of the University of Amsterdam:

Case Nr.340
Crime Category: NS-Gewaltverbrechen in Haftstätten, Final Phase Crimes
Accused:
Rakers, Bernhard life sentence + 15 Years
Court:
LG Osnabrück 530210
Country where the crime was committed: Germany, Poland
Crime Location: HS KL Auschwitz, HS KL Gleiwitz II, HS KL Esterwegen, HS KL Weimar Gustloff Werke, HS KL Sachsenhausen, on the road along the way of the evacuation march from KL Auschwitz-Monowitz to KL Gleiwitz, on the road along the way of the evacuation march from KL Gleiwitz to KL Sachsenhausen
Crime Date: 34-45
Victims: Prisoners, Jews
Nationality: German, French, Dutch, Austrian, Polish, Rumanian, Soviet, Hungarian, unknown
Office: Haftstättenpersonal KL Auschwitz, Haftstättenpersonal KL Gleiwitz II, Haftstättenpersonal KL Esterwegen, Haftstättenpersonal KL Weimar Gustloff Werke, Haftstättenpersonal KL Sachsenhausen
Subject of the proceeding: Activities of the defendant in Auschwitz: Mishandling of prisoners, in part with fatal consequences, participation in the hanging of prisoners at the roll-call grounds, selections of ill Jews and Jews unfit for work, who were then gassed. Participation in the shooting of prisoners after the liquidation of the camp during the evacuation march from KL Auschwitz-Monowitz to KL Gleiwitz, as well as during the evacuation transport from KL Gleiwitz to KL Sachsenhausen. Mishandling of prisoners, in part with fatal consequences, in KL Esterwegen, Sachsenhausen and Weimar Gustloff Werke

Source of quote:

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng340.htm

Case Nr.473
Crime Category: NS-Crimes in Detainment Centers, War Crimes
Accused:
Schubert, Wilhelm Karl Ferdinand life sentence + 15 Years
Sorge, Gustav Hermann life sentence + 15 Years
Court:
LG Bonn 590206
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: HS KL Esterwegen, HS KL Sachsenhausen, HS KL Berlin-Lichterfelde
Crime Date: 35-43
Victims: Prisoners, Jews, Prisoners of War
Nationality: German, Lithuanian, Dutch, Austrian, Polish, Soviet, Czech, unknown
Office: Haftstättenpersonal KL Esterwegen, Haftstättenpersonal KL Sachsenhausen
Subject of the proceeding: Killing and attempted killing of prisoners from KL Esterwegen. Participation in the mass killing of about 10,000 Russian POW's in the execution barracks 'Genickschussbaracke') of KL Sachsenhausen. Killing and attempted killing of a great many prisoners of KL Sachsenhausen

Source of quote:

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng473.htm

Case Nr.488
Crime Category: NS-Crimes in Detainment Centers
Accused:
Bugdalle, Richard life sentence
Court:
LG München I 600120
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: HS KL Sachsenhausen
Crime Date: 39-41
Victims: Prisoners, Jews, Gypsies
Nationality: German, Chinese, unknown
Office: Haftstättenpersonal KL Sachsenhausen
Subject of the proceeding: Killing of a large number of prisoners by means of 'pole-hanging' ('Pfahlhängen'), suffocating, slaying, trampling, or by hosing them down with ice-cold water

Source of quote:

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng488.htm

Case Nr.497
Crime Category: NS-Crimes in Detainment Centers, War Crimes
Accused:
Böhm, Otto Wilhelm life sentence
Hempel, Horst 5 Years
Höhn, August life sentence
Court:
LG Düsseldorf 601015
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: HS KL Sachsenhausen
Crime Date: 41-4504
Victims: Jews, Prisoners of War, Prisoners, Foreign Laborers
Nationality: Soviet, German, unknown
Office: Haftstättenpersonal KL Sachsenhausen
Subject of the proceeding: Execution of at least 200 prisoners within the context of the 'Special Treatment' ('Sonderbehandlung') of Russian POW's in the execution barracks ('Genickschussbaracke'). Strangulation or hanging of prisoners on the roll-call grounds. Shooting of 27 prisoners of the 'leather Kommando' in the crematorium. Shooting, hanging and gassing of individual persons and groups of persons, who had been especially transferred to KL Sachsenhausen for this purpose. Shooting of 82 prisoners within the context of the alarm stage 'Scharnhorst', which involved the killing of prisoners specified by name, at the time of the evacuation of the camp. Killing of at least 2000 ill prisoners at the time of the camp's evacuation, early 1945. Shooting of altogether about 230 Jewish prisoners, who had been transferred to KL Sachsenhausen at the time of the evacuation of the Nebenlager Lieberose. Shooting of a number of prisoners during the evacuation march from KL Sachsenhausen in the direction of Lübeck

Source of quote:

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng497.htm

Case Nr.537
Crime Category: NS-Crimes in Deatinment Centers, Mass Extermination Crimes in Camps, War Crimes
Accused:
Wessel, Heinrich Otto 7½ Years
Court:
LG Verden 620606
Country where the crime was committed: Germany
Crime Location: HS KL Sachsenhausen
Crime Date: 4206-4504
Victims: Prisoners, Foreign Laborers, Prisoners of War, Jews
Nationality: British, German, French, Luxemburg, Polish, Soviet, unknown
Office: Haftstättenpersonal KL Sachsenhausen
Subject of the proceeding: Participation in hangings at the roll-call grounds and in shootings in the concentration camp's factory courtyard, of prisoners and foreign laborers, who were transferred to the concentration camp in order to be killed there, on orders of the Reich Security Main Office. Cooperation in the killing of a woman, whose eye was required for a medical experiment. Participation in shootings, among them, of 27 members of the 'leather commando', and of 82 prisoners in the night of January 31 - February 1, 1945, within the contect of the alarm phase 'Scharnhorst', which involved the killing of prisoners identified by name, at the time of the evacuation of the camp. During the course of this evacuation: participation in the killing of at least 2000 ill or exhausted Sachsenhausen prisoners, as well as of at least 150 prisoners from the annex camp Lieberose. Cooperation with experiments on prisoners with poisoned ammunition, potassium cyanide, and so on

Source of quote:

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng537.htm

[Scott Smith]

You did not give a source for your quote. My source was Höß

Who was at Sachsenhausen before the war and thus knew little of what happened there during the war.

Before the war is the whole point, as the business of Genocide is inconceivable without the war. But Höß worked for the IKL for a time after he was Kommandant of Auschwitz.

and Professor Michael Thad Allen in The Business of Genocide, which I am currently reading to review for Germar Rudolf's Revisionist magazine.

I couldn’t stand the man in the mirror if I wrote for such a publication, but to each his own.

You haven't even read it, my silly friend. It just published its first issue anyway. My review of Richard Holmes' Battlefields will be in the next one I think.

Let’s hope that Smith doesn’t misrepresent Prof. Allen’s statements in his review.

Horrors! Anyway, that's why I encourage you to read the book yourself, Roberto.

It is available from Amazon to support this very site.

CLICK!

Btw, are you saying that Sachsenhausen had a gaschamber?

[Scott Smith]

Scott,

Please don't use the attachment function to add non-relevant images.

/Marcus

Okay, I removed it.

Here are links to the juxtaposed images.


http://www.deathcamps.org/pic/mond2.jpg

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~belinda/image ... elieve.jpg

[Roberto]

You did not give a source for your quote. My source was Höß

Who was at Sachsenhausen before the war and thus knew little of what happened there during the war.

Before the war is the whole point, as the business of Genocide is inconceivable without the war.

Certainly so. As your master Goebbels said in his diary entry of 27 March 1942, the English translation of which is transcribed under

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goe ... ts-02.html :

[…]Fortunately a whole series of possibilities presents itself for us in wartime that would be denied us in peacetime. We shall have to profit by this.[…]

and Professor Michael Thad Allen in The Business of Genocide, which I am currently reading to review for Germar Rudolf's Revisionist magazine.

I couldn’t stand the man in the mirror if I wrote for such a publication, but to each his own.

You haven't even read it, my silly friend.

Poor Smith is pissed. The editor being a certain Germar Rudolf, I don’t have to read the publication to know what to expect from it – anti-Semitic and/or Nazi-apologetic lies. If anything better comes from it, I’d be mighty surprised.

Let’s hope that Smith doesn’t misrepresent Prof. Allen’s statements in his review.

Horrors! Anyway, that's why I encourage you to read the book yourself, Roberto.

I wasn’t talking about Allen’s book, as Smith well knows. I was referring to the publication for which Smith intends to review it. I appreciate the demonstration that my concern over misrepresentation by Smith is justified.

Btw, are you saying that Sachsenhausen had a gaschamber?

That’s what West German criminal justice concluded on. What exactly can Smith show us to have been wrong about their conclusions?