'They raped every German female from eight to 80'

[Gwynn Compton]

Antony Beevor, I've found, is an extremely reliable historian. Not only that, he is an extremely good writer, though he does rely on a lot of emotion in his writing, but it does make his books all the more gripping.

Beevor is known for presenting both sides of the conflict, and personalizing it. I've read Stalingrad several times, and I am eagerly looking forward to Berlin when it arrives next week

[wildboar]

Hetman
they were nothing but organised mass atrocities on german civilians by MR.BERIA head of NVKD , communist regimes destroyed all the evidence which would had proved pre-planning and involvement of NVKD led by BERIA

I found no suprise in BEVOOR's research and its claims since i have stated of soviet atrocities in germany were nothing but machinations of mr beria.

withouth support of beria and involvement of nvkd mass rape's would not have occured.

[Roberto]

Hetman
they were nothing but organised mass atrocities on german civilians by MR.BERIA head of NVKD , communist regimes destroyed all the evidence which would had proved pre-planning and involvement of NVKD led by BERIA

I found no suprise in BEVOOR's research and its claims since i have stated of soviet atrocities in germany were nothing but machinations of mr beria.

withouth support of beria and involvement of nvkd mass rape's would not have occured.

wildboar,

Let me give you two friendly pieces of advice:

1. Write in smaller letters;

2. Leave Mr. Beria and the NKVD out of this if you want to maintain a semblance of credibility. I have no doubt that Beria was a hideous monster who tortured and killed countless people, but there is no evidence whatsoever that he or his organization masterminded the massive rapes of German women by Soviet troops at the end of the war.
On the contrary, all evidence - including, as it seems, the one assessed by a historian of note like Beevor for his recent book - suggests that, although the Soviet government was late to intervene against the atrocities committed by its troops, there was no high-level premeditation let alone a plan by any higher instance of command behind it. The picture that emerges from all sources I have looked at is that a great many Soviet soldiers just went out of control upon entering German territory, and that for a long time their superiors didn't care (or, in some cases, dare) to take any measures in order to rein them in.

Best regards,

Roberto

[Gwynn Compton]

I imagine Beria was no doubt too busy with making up more conspiracy theories for Stalin.

[Aleksei]

[quote="HETMAN"]'They raped every German female from eight to 80'

Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious Red Army.

Wednesday May 1, 2002
The Guardian
*********************************


Hello,


Does anybody knows any Antony Beevor's (or others) research related to

rape statistics in western occupation zone in 1945-1946 ? (USA+UK+France)




Thank you,

[Gwynn Compton]

I don't think Beevor has researched the Western Theatre of operations. Though I hope he does, as his writting has always been of a very high standard.

[Aleksei]

I don't think Beevor has researched the Western Theatre of operations. Though I hope he does, as his writting has always been of a very high standard.

*************************


Thank you,

Hope that first sale day for his new documental investigation
will be assosiated with present or next D-day selebration.

I just have my own Title version for his (or others) book: -

" D-day - first day we raped Western Europe"




PS. - Please, dont be confused.
No artifical smears over Second front weterans
Historical facts (for Western Europe raping) ONLY !!!!!!!!

[Gwynn Compton]

Antony Beevor doesn't just write about war crimes, he also writes very well about the actual campaigns, the conditions for the soldiers, the high politics, he is a remarkably thorough writer, and for a well balanced study of any front in the Second World War, Beevor can be relied on.

[Aleksei]

Antony Beevor doesn't just write about war crimes, he also writes very well conditions , the conditions for the soldiers, the high politics, he is a remarkably thorough writer, and for a well balanced study of any front in the Second World War, Beevor can be relied on.

Thank you.

It is for this " remarkably thorough writings" - I will be wait his new publication (hope - witn real docs) related to Western Europe raping.


PS/ - There is one additional topic for WW2 which I advizse him for writing:- Publication of real docs about german's KZ conditions (Aushwits for ex.)
Russian archives have a lot of DOCs ..... REAL DOCS which would be very interesting for REAL history-researcher for remarkably and balanced study (Oh, yes - British archives too)

[Roberto]

Antony Beevor doesn't just write about war crimes, he also writes very well conditions , the conditions for the soldiers, the high politics, he is a remarkably thorough writer, and for a well balanced study of any front in the Second World War, Beevor can be relied on.

Thank you.

It is for this " remarkably thorough writings" - I will be wait his new publication (hope - witn real docs) related to Western Europe raping.


PS/ - There is one additional topic for WW2 which I advizse him for writing:- Publication of real docs about german's KZ conditions (Aushwits for ex.)
Russian archives have a lot of DOCs ..... REAL DOCS which would be very interesting for REAL history-researcher for remarkably and balanced study (Oh, yes - British archives too)

Aleksei,

I haven't yet read Beevor's book on the battle of Berlin, but I have read his book on the battle of Stalingrad, which is excellent. Beevor tells the story from the point of view of both sides and does justice to both, which includes describing in detail the atrocities of either that become apparent from the documents and other evidence examined. You will thus find accounts of the mass starvation of Soviet prisoners of war in German camps, the massacres by the Einsatzgruppen and other German formations and the forced eviction of Russian civilians from their villages and homesteads in the middle of winter, as you will find accounts of the brutality of Soviet troops against German prisoners of war and of NKVD detachments against Red Army soldiers who were not eager enough to have their heads shot off at the front line. Both are part of the picture, and both need to be mentioned. Beevor is an objective and impartial observer, not anybody's propagandist. He thus writes about things that may not fit into the ideological bubble of certain people for no other reason than his having certified himself that they are proven facts. This is what he can be expected to have done in regard to the events he narrates in his book about the battle of Berlin, which as Gwynn pointed out is not an atrocity report but the story of a military confrontation in all its aspects. So instead of indulging in pointless so-and-so-also-did-this-and-that mumbling, you shoud have the honesty and courage to look at occurrences which, however unpleasant and hard to stomach, are a part of Russian history. This is what Germans have been doing in regard to their history for at least 30 years. If they can face up to their past, why can't Russians do the same?

[Aleksei]

Hello, Roberto

Glad to hear you again.
Your posting was so amazing to me that sometime I have no words to comment ...

But, anyway, please, find below my short answer: -




*************************
Aleksei,

I haven't yet read Beevor's book on the battle of Berlin, but I have read his book on the battle of Stalingrad, which is excellent.
************************



I haven't yet read Beevor's book on the battle of Berlin too (during some weeks it will be scanned, OCRed and published in Russian WWW domain), but I have read battle of Stalingrad too. What can I say about this book?


This book definetly shows ABSOLUTELU different kind of view for a War as it WAS (and is!) seen from RUSSIAN's and so called GERMAN's side. What do I mean? - I mean that we Russians will never understand Westernees (and vs. vs.) if we would describe WAR events on the baseless platform of "phylosophy, emotions, remixing of popular and socially-adapted patterns (shablons or templates) etc." - accomodated to western HISTORICAL market economy and socially pre-programmed brains of "consumers" in so called globalized western world.

Lage part of Beevor's Stalingrad contents - are mystery or tale stories for kidds (i am trying to use so called politcorrect words only, because othervise i need to say - "tale stories for edult clinical idiots", sorry). Why ? - Only one word for answer: - The WAR of 1941-1945 was the WAR-FOR-EXTERMINATION. But it was not USSR, whom started it.




****************************
Beevor tells the story from the point of view of both sides and does justice to both, which includes describing in detail the atrocities of either that become apparent from the documents and other evidence examined.
****************************


I can accept this point of view if Beevor - is real veteran of 1941-1945 WAR or his story is totally documeted. I cannot understand term " other evidence ", sorry. Othervise - NO, its some kind of meal-writings for pre-programmed westernees brain (may be I need to use terms like popcorn or chips)



********************
You will thus find accounts of the mass starvation of Soviet prisoners of war in German camps, the massacres by the [i]Einsatzgruppen[/i] and other German formations and the forced eviction of Russian civilians from their villages and homesteads in the middle of winter, ........
*************************

Oh, Roberto, please, make this things easilly - READ DOC's of Rosenberg Department for Easten Territory. - You will need nothings more else!!!!





*****************************
as you will find accounts of the brutality of Soviet troops against German prisoners of war
******************************



Roberto, read books published by Paulys (sorry for possible misspel - 6-th army chif)



**************************
and of NKVD detachments against Red Army soldiers who were not eager enough to have their heads shot off at the front line.
****************************

Some of them was killed by NKVD and it were ABSOLUTELY right. Why? - Once more agait: - It was not adventure, but The WAR of 1941-1945 was the WAR-FOR-EXTERMINATION. USSR had only BIT-to-BIT stake.



*************************
Both are part of the picture, and both need to be mentioned.
***************************

No objection, if it based on REAL docs, otherwise - it is yellow papers.



**************************
Beevor is an objective and impartial observer, not anybody's propagandist. He thus writes about things that may not fit into the ideological bubble of certain people for no other reason than his having certified himself that they are proven facts.
***********************

OK, that is why I will be wating for his second part (rape of Western Europe)



*********************
This is what he can be expected to have done in regard to the events he narrates in his book about the battle of Berlin, which as Gwynn pointed out is not an atrocity report but the story of a military confrontation in all its aspects. So instead of indulging in pointless so-and-so-also-did-this-and-that mumbling, you shoud have the honesty and courage to look at occurrences which, however unpleasant and hard to stomach, are a part of Russian history.
****************************


Ok - I will waite for similar part of Western's allies history.






***************************
This is what Germans have been doing in regard to their history for at least 30 years. If they can face up to their past, why can't Russians do the same?[/quote]
******************************



Roberto, some time I think that you are really CRAZY!

(I dont want to harm you or offend !!!!!!!)



How can I explaine you this trivial ABC's???


OK, ..... my partner at russian historical forum gave me 2 good advizes: - Leasen, Roberto. Just now I tell you (only YOU!!!!) two new secret Russian's plans: -

1. - We are going to prepare own [Barbarossa]. It will be activated in 2041.

2. - We are going to prepare own [Dropshort]. Please, be ready to accept 300 A-bomb (10x of Hirosima, at least). It will be activated in 2048.




************************
why can't Russians do the same?[/quote]
************************



You see, Roberto, - We (Russians) are ready to follow your advizes. Are you ready accept them too ?

[Marcus]

I haven't yet read Beevor's book on the battle of Berlin too (during some weeks it will be scanned, OCRed and published in Russian WWW domain)

And Beevor has of course agreed to this and will recieve royalties for his work?

/Marcus

[Aleksei]

I haven't yet read Beevor's book on the battle of Berlin too (during some weeks it will be scanned, OCRed and published in Russian WWW domain)

And Beevor has of course agreed to this and will recieve royalties for his work?

/Marcus

Hello, Marcus


Definitly not. Why? -

Because this is a part of our [Barbarossa-2041] plan.

Hope you understand this.

[Marcus]

Alexsei,

It's called stealing and no, I don't approve.

/Marcus

[Roberto]

You see, Roberto, - We (Russians) are ready to follow your advizes. Are you ready accept them too ?

Not from you, buddy. You produce nothing but unintelligible nonsense that I won't waste my time trying to decipher. Get lost. I prefer talking to your countryman Oleg, who seems to have much more brain inside his skull.