KL Warschau

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: KL Warschau

#16

Post by history1 » 25 Feb 2015, 15:43

Why does they not say in the link "http://www.info-pc.home.pl/whatfor/baza/kl_warschau.htm" that the photo showing the Zyklon B cans is from Auschwitz? I shot exactly the same 20+ years ago there.
I also question the information regarding to the photo "Achtung - Neutrale Zone" when scrolling down slightly below the middle of the page. The Polish text says that the text of the placard is in different languages because there were also people from many countries there.
But then I found out that the same picture is published in an wikipedia article dealing with the Polish-Hungarian relationship:
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stosunki_ ... 99gierskie
Though an errata below the caption says it´s a sign from the entrance to Gęsowka. But who knows as everyone can change and write there whatever he wants.

User avatar
Makarov
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: 10 Oct 2011, 12:31

Re: KL Warschau

#17

Post by Makarov » 26 Feb 2015, 11:04

4thskorpion, thank you very much for your info regarding the five camps that together formed KL Warschau.
4thskorpion wrote:at least one person states that the site of the ruins was in fact built pre-war as a summer camp in the woods for children, run by nuns that he attended, others contradict this and say it was part of KLW.
That might be, but that doesn´t necessary exclude the ruins from being part of KLW, the Buildings could easily have been confiscated by the germans who just gave them new functions.


User avatar
4thskorpion
Member
Posts: 733
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 16:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: KL Warschau

#18

Post by 4thskorpion » 26 Feb 2015, 12:47

history1 wrote:Why does they not say in the link "http://www.info-pc.home.pl/whatfor/baza/kl_warschau.htm" that the photo showing the Zyklon B cans is from Auschwitz? I shot exactly the same 20+ years ago there.
These "generic" photos of the "Zyklon B" cans (possibly from Auschwitz) have simply been used to illustrate in the article text below the photo of the cans with what one witness says he saw in the "gas chambers which are said to have been constructed in tunnels of "Bema w Warszawie-Zachodniej".

"......such as those seen in Auschwitz. The cans were "Zyklon B" - used in the gas chambers [witnesses AJ Dmowski, F. Jedynak]."

The article text does not actually say the "Zyklon B" cans in the photograph were from Bema, but says "such as seen at Auschwitz".
history1 wrote:I also question the information regarding to the photo "Achtung - Neutrale Zone" when scrolling down slightly below the middle of the page. The Polish text says that the text of the placard is in different languages because there were also people from many countries there.
But then I found out that the same picture is published in an wikipedia article dealing with the Polish-Hungarian relationship:
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stosunki_ ... 99gierskie
Though an errata below the caption says it´s a sign from the entrance to Gęsowka. But who knows as everyone can change and write there whatever he wants.
The "Achtung-Neutrale Zone" image used in the wikipedia page you kindly linked to also has a reference to another Polish article which says the "Achtung-Neutrale Zone" photo is sourced from the Muzeum Niepodległości w Warszawie. Images are commonly shared online by many who do not adequately check and recheck sources for accuracy of attributation or context.
Achtung - Neutrale Zone.png
Achtung - Neutrale Zone.png (244.75 KiB) Viewed 994 times
Last edited by 4thskorpion on 26 Feb 2015, 16:23, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
4thskorpion
Member
Posts: 733
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 16:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: KL Warschau

#19

Post by 4thskorpion » 26 Feb 2015, 12:59

Makarov wrote:4thskorpion, thank you very much for your info regarding the five camps that together formed KL Warschau.
4thskorpion wrote:at least one person states that the site of the ruins was in fact built pre-war as a summer camp in the woods for children, run by nuns that he attended, others contradict this and say it was part of KLW.
That might be, but that doesn´t necessary exclude the ruins from being part of KLW, the Buildings could easily have been confiscated by the germans who just gave them new functions.
I agree, nothing is certain.

User avatar
Makarov
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: 10 Oct 2011, 12:31

Re: KL Warschau

#20

Post by Makarov » 28 Feb 2015, 19:56

This Tablet can be found in the attached (polish) link, can anyone help me where this tablet can be found?
KZ Warschau.jpg
KZ Warschau.jpg (76.25 KiB) Viewed 970 times
http://klwarschau.blogspot.se/2014/02/foto-httpwww.html

I´m still looking for information about the prison at Zamenhofa, Did such a prison exist and where was it located?

User avatar
4thskorpion
Member
Posts: 733
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 16:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: KL Warschau

#21

Post by 4thskorpion » 01 Mar 2015, 09:41

It can be found on one of the walls of the Church of Saint Stanisław or kościoła Św. Stanisława in Wola district Warsaw.

michael mills
Member
Posts: 8999
Joined: 11 Mar 2002, 13:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: KL Warschau

#22

Post by michael mills » 10 Mar 2015, 07:31

According to this source:

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/kzwarsaw.html

The character of KZ Warschau was typical of a labour and concentration camp. There were no gas chambers, and most prisoners who died in the camp fell victim to the primitive living and working conditions.

michael mills
Member
Posts: 8999
Joined: 11 Mar 2002, 13:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: KL Warschau

#23

Post by michael mills » 10 Mar 2015, 07:37

This Tablet can be found in the attached (polish) link, can anyone help me where this tablet can be found?
The tablet says that 200,000 Poles were murdered in the "extermination camp" KL Warschau between 1942 and 1944. That seems to be a gross exaggeration.

User avatar
4thskorpion
Member
Posts: 733
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 16:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: KL Warschau

#24

Post by 4thskorpion » 10 Mar 2015, 11:26

The assertion that there was a gas chamber at Warszawa Zachodnia (Warsaw West railway station) was made by PRL Judge Maria (Marianna) Trzcińska (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Trzci%C5%84ska) however the IPN concluded that based on the available evidence it is unproven that gas chambers were built or operating in the tunnel of Warszawa Zachodnia during World War II. None of the documents produced by the German occupation authorities or the Polish Underground State or eyewitness accounts collected during the war or just after the war confirmed the existence of the gas chambers at Warszawa Zachodnia. Trzcińska fell out with the IPN over this issue.

The "Gas Chambers" controversy appears to be based on just 3 testimonies of June 14, 1988 (IPN Document No. 93), the record of the interrogation of Felix J. of 4 January 1989 (Document No. 110) and one from a woman who claimed to have seen the gas chamber(s) but whose testimony was not included in the in the records of the investigation produced by the IPN (IPN S 35/06 / Zn (cf. Document No. 169, p. 602). The fans constructed in the tunnels were concluded as being simply the ventilation system that tunnels require to vent dirty air.

The 200,000 victims is presumably the number that Trzcińska arrived at during the course of her research.

KONZENTRATIONSLAGER WARSCHAU, the annihilation site of 200,000 thousand Poles between the years 1942 – 1944, still remains without a memorial tomb. by Dr. Mira Modelska-Creech

"...The report of Bronisław Świderski prepared for the Commission for the Examination of German Annihilation in Warsaw under the title “Death Camp KL Warschau,” states: “we have confirmation that KL Warschau was a death camp for the city of Warsaw.””.

http://modelskamira.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... schau.html

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 8753
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:11
Location: Poland

Re: KL Warschau

#25

Post by wm » 10 Mar 2015, 12:17

Trzcińska's claims of the number of victims, and of the number of sub-camps (the consensus seems to be there were none) has given rise to a small, 9/11 truthers like movement - this is one of the reasons for the conflicted claims like on that tablet.

User avatar
Orlov
Member
Posts: 1054
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 21:15
Location: Europe

Re: KL Warschau

#26

Post by Orlov » 31 Dec 2022, 01:18

Makarov wrote:
28 Feb 2015, 19:56
This Tablet can be found in the attached (polish) link, can anyone help me where this tablet can be found?
[...]
I´m still looking for information about the prison at Zamenhofa, Did such a prison exist and where was it located?
I warn against the harmful activities of the supporters of Judge Trzcinska (Judge Trzcinska sect). This is an actual sect with nationalist and anti-Semitic views - they invent alternative and false theories about 200,000 murdered Poles in KZ Warschau, which was a branch of KZ Lublin, intended for Jews to work as slaves in the demolition of the Warsaw Ghetto.
Any report from the Komenda Glowna Armii Krajowej (Home Army Headquarters) or Delegatura Rzadu na Kraj (Government Delegation for Poland) - i.e. the Polish Underground State - to the Polish Government in Exile (in London) and Oddzial VI Sztabu Naczelnego Wodza Polskich Sil Zbrojnych na Zachodzie (Department VI of the Staff of the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Armed Forces in the West) mentioned the specific smell of mass-burned bodies in the crematorium (as this was the case with KZ Lublin-Majdanek) or the existence of gas chambers in Warsaw.
michael mills wrote:
10 Mar 2015, 07:31
[...]The character of KZ Warschau was typical of a labour and concentration camp. There were no gas chambers, and most prisoners who died in the camp fell victim to the primitive living and working conditions.
You are absolutely right. Let's hope that we will see the publication of the Zygmunt Walkowski report - refuting judge Trzcińska's forgeries not supported by any Polish and German wartime documents
===
The official and academical opinion about KZ Warschau was presented by prof. Boguslaw Kopka in a book published in Polish [Konzentrationslager Warschau. Historia i następstwa. (Konzentrationslager Warschau. History and aftermath) Warszawa 2007] and in German [Das KZ Warschau. Geschichte und Nachwirkungen, aus dem Polnischen von Jürgen Hensel, Warschau 2010].
The rest of the claims of the "judge Trzcinska sect" are information sucked from the finger.
PS: I recommended also article Christian Davies Under the Railway Line [in:] "London Review of Books" Vol. 41 No. 9 · 9 May 2019 https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n09 ... ilway-line

1-22802.jpg
1-22802.jpg (68.3 KiB) Viewed 588 times
1-23832.jpg
1-23832.jpg (157.22 KiB) Viewed 589 times

Post Reply

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”