Otto Grudzinski
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Otto Grudzinski
I am interested in more information about the fate and crimes of:
Otto Grudzinski
member Selbstschutz Tomaszow
Trial Lodz 1946
death sentence
Was he executed? When was he born?
Otto Grudzinski
member Selbstschutz Tomaszow
Trial Lodz 1946
death sentence
Was he executed? When was he born?
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Re: Otto Grudzinski
Otto Karl Grudziński born 12.10.1907 in Tomaszów Mazowiecki
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Unless it's the same name coincidence, 20 year old Otto Grudziński is the second firefighter from the left, the middle row:
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Ansata1976 you´re continuos calling people "war criminals" even without the knowledge what their crime was or any other proof. Be aware that defamation is a crime! See Austrian penal code § 111 and §297, punished with 1 to 5 years prison.ansata1976 wrote:I am interested in more information about the fate and crimes of:
Otto Grudzinski
member Selbstschutz Tomaszow
Trial Lodz 1946
death sentence
Was he executed? When was he born?
Note that Austrian courts are convicting every now and again people for postings on social media websites (mostly Facebook). In the last month 9 persons were put to trial. Bear in mind also that the forums operator can be held liable for your posts! But he is also bound to help by criminal proceedings against forum members in the case of persecution.
PS.: I posted on another website informations about a court trial respective a dog breeder. The "lady" called it a lie and requested to remove my post (what was only truth). The website operator contacted me and asked if I still stand to my post which I affirmed. Result: Lawsuit against the organisation who´s running the website and a trial with the result that she lost the case because I also named two other witnesses who confirmed my informations. Hence, consider your wording in future, please.
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Those people are war criminals (as the section III of Hague V from 1907 defines them) because they were declared as such by legitimate courts of law.
Those courts weren't perfect but still nothing like the Soviets tribunals full of ignorant apparatchiks. The judges were mostly the pre-war high-standard judges, and the pre-war penal code was used, regarded as one of the most progressive in the world.
So many death penalties might seem excessive but it the case of war crimes it had been regarded for a long time that the law needs to be brutal as a warning to future wannabe war-criminals.
Still congratulations for standing up to frivolous litigation bullies.
Those courts weren't perfect but still nothing like the Soviets tribunals full of ignorant apparatchiks. The judges were mostly the pre-war high-standard judges, and the pre-war penal code was used, regarded as one of the most progressive in the world.
So many death penalties might seem excessive but it the case of war crimes it had been regarded for a long time that the law needs to be brutal as a warning to future wannabe war-criminals.
Still congratulations for standing up to frivolous litigation bullies.
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Re: Otto Grudzinski
I repeated only the information I found in my source:
http://bc.wbp.lodz.pl/dlibra/publication/58279?tab=1 nr 206 page 5
Grudzinski was sentenced to death. I think there was a good reason to sentence him. When I made translation mistakes I am very sorry.
http://bc.wbp.lodz.pl/dlibra/publication/58279?tab=1 nr 206 page 5
Grudzinski was sentenced to death. I think there was a good reason to sentence him. When I made translation mistakes I am very sorry.
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Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Otto Grudzinski
12.10.1907 in Tomaszów Mazowiecki
member Selbstschutz Tomaszow
Trial Lodz 1946
death sentence
executed???
12.10.1907 in Tomaszów Mazowiecki
member Selbstschutz Tomaszow
Trial Lodz 1946
death sentence
executed???
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Selbstschutz + 1946 + death sentence means war crime, it can't be anything else.
In fact he was, using the language of the 1944 decree called sierpniówka he was a Polish traitor, and a hitlerite war-time criminal.
He was a Polish German firefighter, as many of his colleagues in the picture above (although he was treated as a Pole during the trial). A member of Selbstschutz, took active part in roundups of Poles, mistreated the Jewish population during the establishment of the Litzmannstadt ghetto, mistreated Poles.
Each and every of these acts warranted at least a 3-year prison, up to death sentence. Mistreatment of the Jewish population could have been easily upgraded to mandatory death sentence ( a race or religious hate crime).
But it seems he specifically got it for bragging he personally sent a Pole to Auschwitz where he perished (mandatory death sentence).
In fact he was, using the language of the 1944 decree called sierpniówka he was a Polish traitor, and a hitlerite war-time criminal.
He was a Polish German firefighter, as many of his colleagues in the picture above (although he was treated as a Pole during the trial). A member of Selbstschutz, took active part in roundups of Poles, mistreated the Jewish population during the establishment of the Litzmannstadt ghetto, mistreated Poles.
Each and every of these acts warranted at least a 3-year prison, up to death sentence. Mistreatment of the Jewish population could have been easily upgraded to mandatory death sentence ( a race or religious hate crime).
But it seems he specifically got it for bragging he personally sent a Pole to Auschwitz where he perished (mandatory death sentence).
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Re: Otto Grudzinski
Was the sentence carried out? Do you know the date?
Last edited by ansata1976 on 14 Apr 2016, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
ansata 1976 wrote:" I´m interested on more information [...] in the crimes of [...] Otto Grudzinski"wm wrote:Those people are war criminals (as the section III of Hague V from 1907 defines them) because they were declared as such by legitimate courts of law.
[...]
This means that ansata1976 even don´t know which crimes he commited but called Grudzinski a war criminal without any evidence!
BTW, wm, your claim is incorrect! Since when is being a member of rounding up teams, in this case of Jews and Poles, a war crime? His proud statement towards the fire brigade commander, that he´s responsible for the transfer of Anton Komar into KL Auschwitz is not a war crime either!
Fazit: Being convicted to death doesn´t mean that the man was convicted for war crimes nor that he´s a war criminal!
The excuse/justification of ansata1976
is laughable, as there is NOWHERE the word "war criminal" in the whole article mentioned!I repeated only the information I found in my source
And no, ansata1976, you don´t repeated only what you read in the newspaper as you did NOT quote it. Just now you presented you source, a whole week later. Look out for "zbrodniarz wojenny = war criminal", in the text, ansata1976. And if you´re not sure ask me what´s the content of the text. I´m here to help!
BTW, the forum mods and admins are informed about this commited crime, and so are they also liable if they do not intervene/stop it.
Or do they risk a lead action? I doubt that would be good publicity for the forum.
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Re: Otto Grudzinski
Do not worry. I do not post here again. I use other sources to get the info I need.
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Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
Thank you for your help and advice history1
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
You couldn't be more mistaken. People like Grudziński were always tried under the Sierpniówka decree. Always.history1 wrote: is laughable, as there is NOWHERE the word "war criminal" in the whole article mentioned!
His sentence means we was a war criminal - more precisely a hitlerite war-time criminal. Although it's possible he was sentenced as a traitor, or both.
Ansata actually is very skilfull in his search for any info about those trials in old Polish newspapers.
Although no deep knowledge is required, a few words usually, it's as easy as : Selbstschutz + 1946 + death sentence = the Sierpniówka decree = war criminal.
Yes it is. He was an active member, he was beating up and torturing civilians.history1 wrote:BTW, wm, your claim is incorrect! Since when is being a member of rounding up teams, in this case of Jews and Poles, a war crime?
No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible.
You might think that beating up someone is nothing - maybe a suspended sentence of a few months in prison. Well, in war for a member of the occupation force it was up the wall. And the occupied nation would be your judge, jury and executioner.Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
Laws of War; Hague IV, Section III.
In war there was no subtlety, and wasn't needed.
It's the article 1, sub-article 2 of the Sierpniówka decree - mandatory death sentence. An eye for an eye.history1 wrote:His proud statement towards the fire brigade commander, that he´s responsible for the transfer of Anton Komar into KL Auschwitz is not a war crime either!
One might think that thanks to dealing with so many war criminals and death sentences you have grown an elephant's thick skin by nowansata1976 wrote:Thank you for your help and advice history1
Re: war criminal Otto Grudzinski
history1
What is said on North American Facebook is sometimes astounding to read.
There is a button to report an inappropriate post which I have used once but it seems moderators on social media
are very lax. You can almost say anything. ..aware of course not on
Axis Forum (thank goodness)
Does that apply to only Austria or Europe?people "war criminals" even without the knowledge what their crime was or any other proof. Be aware that defamation is a crime! See Austrian penal code § 111 and §297, punished with 1 to 5 years prison.
Note that Austrian courts are convicting every now and again people for postings on social media websites (mostly Facebook). In the last month 9 persons were put to trial. Bear in mind also that the forums operator can be held liable for your posts! But he is also bound to help by criminal proceedings against forum members in the case of persecution.
What is said on North American Facebook is sometimes astounding to read.
There is a button to report an inappropriate post which I have used once but it seems moderators on social media
are very lax. You can almost say anything. ..aware of course not on
Axis Forum (thank goodness)