The Polish atomic bomb

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RolfR
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The Polish atomic bomb

Post by RolfR » 27 Jul 2016 03:38

Greetings

Does anyone have any information about the atomic bomb that Germany used to vaporise 20,000 people in Poland? It's mentioned in the Nuremberg Military Tribunal by prosecutor Jackson?

Is it safe to travel there?

TKS

steve248
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by steve248 » 27 Jul 2016 10:09

Do point out the date of the transcript and who Jackson was talking to.

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by OpanaPointer » 27 Jul 2016 11:43

Oh, please yes. Gotta read that!
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by uberjude » 03 Aug 2016 03:25

This is one of those things that makes the round of Holocaust denial websites to show how allegedly outlandish the claims are that there was a Holocaust. As is generally the case with such things, there is much ado about nothing. Jackson didn't charge the Germans with anything--he asked Speer about some rumor or information he had, and when Speer answered to the negative, he moved on. And, in fact, what's interesting is that bsed on what Jackson says, the report he had came from German sources, allegedly as a means of strengthening German morale with reports of "wonder weapons." And in fact, Speer confirms this in the exchange (last paragraph given). Thus, far from being a sign of how the Allies exaggerated claims of German atrocities, it's a sign of how desperate the Germans were. And again, this is not a "charge;" it is a question about a report that in fact originated with German propaganda, and when answered, Jackson moves on.

Here's the full exchange on the subject:
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I have certain information, which was placed in my hands, of an experiment which was carried out near Auschwitz and I would like to ask you if you heard about it or knew about it. The purpose of the experiment was to find a quick and complete way of destroying people without the delay and trouble of shooting and gassing and burning, as it had been carried out, and this is the experiment, as I am advised. A village, a small village was provisionally erected, with temporary structures, and in it approximately 20,000 Jews were put. By means of this newly invented weapon of destruction, these 20,000 people were eradicated almost instantaneously, and in such a way that there was no trace

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21 June 46

left of them; that it developed, the explosive developed, temperatures of from 400° to 500° centigrade and destroyed them without leaving any trace at all.

Do you know about that experiment?

SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had had such a weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party would start chemical warfare first.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in the war?

SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that within the near future this new weapon would arrive. I wrote to Hitler about it and also tried in different speeches, even before Goebbels' propaganda leaders, to work against this belief. Both Hitler and Goebbels told me, however, that this was no propaganda of theirs but that it was a belief which had grown up amongst the people. Only in the dock here in Nuremberg, I was told by Fritzsche that this propaganda was spread systematically among the people through some channels or other, and that SS Standartenfuehrer Berg was responsible for it. Many things have become clear to me since, because this man Berg, as a representative of the Ministry of Propaganda, had often taken part in meetings, in big sessions of my Ministry, as he was writing articles about these sessions. There he heard of our future plans and then used this knowledge to tell the people about them with more imagination than truth.
source--IMT blue set, volume 16;, 160th day
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/06-21-46.asp

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by steve248 » 03 Aug 2016 08:25

Great response Uberjude.
Just what was needed to spike this story, no facts just mountains of speculation to give credence.

Interesting views of Speer about keeping the populace on your side with the promises of things to come at this stage of the war.

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by uberjude » 03 Aug 2016 14:00

Thanks--as a history teacher, I find the whole phenomenon of Holocaust Denial a fascinating lesson in how one can make compelling arguments by leaving out the details for people who don't know what's being left out.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 11:21

It doesn't seem credible that the Nazi propaganda would mention Auschwitz in such a piece, or the destruction of Jews. In fact, of course, they tried to conceal the murder of Jews in Auschwitz or in general until the end.

So it has to be something else.

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by OpanaPointer » 31 Aug 2019 11:30

And have we looked for a retraction by Mr. Justice Jackson in regard to that comment?
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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 11:47

In the wacky Italian UFO book Operazione Plenilunio (1972) by Renato Vesco we read on p. 91 (crude translation):
In March '47, rumors were circulating in certain circles of the American Army Ordnance - which would correspond to our >Genio Militare< - that a former important Nazi whose name was not mentioned - but it was an extremely reliable source, a personal physician of Himmler - had shown evidence - which was later examined and confirmed by British intelligence - that Germany possessed the atomic bomb and the first unit was tested over a city built for this purpose in a particularly remote location; this city was populated with non-voluntary Hebrew inhabitants
If this originates from someone like Kersten making wild claims to the intelligence, this is easier to understand.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 11:48

OpanaPointer wrote:
31 Aug 2019 11:30
And have we looked for a retraction by Mr. Justice Jackson in regard to that comment?
Why would there be a retraction? He made no claim.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 11:55

Oh well, there you go. The originator of the claim is clearly the wacky Dr. Kersten:

https://books.google.com/books?id=WWFOD ... &q&f=false
Early in March 1945 I paid one of my last visits to Himmler's headquarters — at the time in Hohenlychen. March — Hitler's lucky month! With the Allied armies poised on the banks of the Rhine and with the famous German West Wall completely smashed!...
These events were as if entirely disregarded by Himmler. He was more optimistic than ever before!
In his conversation with me he returned to the subject of the mysterious secret weapon. He made some strange assertions, and I kept a careful record of these.
"Most people," he said, "think we have lost the war, and I cannot deny that apparently they have reason. But we have not yet used our last secret weapon. V-1 and V-2 bombs are effective secret weapons, but the secret weapon we still have up our sleeves will have an effect no one can even imagine. One or two shots — and cities like New York or London will simply vanish from the earth!
Allied aviation has destroyed many essential factories for its manufacture. That is why we are behind in our schedule. But in a month or two you will read all about it in the papers. Then you will realize that I know what I am talking about!"
"But can Germany hold out a month or two longer?" I asked. " Yes," said Himmler, with conviction.
"But the Allies are on German soil!" I said. "The Russian forces are in the Mark Brandenburg. Stettin is being destroyed! Berlin is almost encircled!"
Himmler smiled. "The weapon," he said, will soon be put into use. Then we will have a breathing space. And in that breathing space Germany will rearm and drive the enemy from her soil." This talk aroused my curiosity. I began giving heed to some very wild rumors — or so I had thought them — which seemed to be in line with Himmler's veiled disclosures. And when Kriminalrat Obersturmfuehrer Goering, a trustworthy man (unlike his homonym) told me something about "the secret weapon," I believed him.
He said that a village had been built near Auschwitz for experimental purposes. They wanted to "try out" the new weapon.
For the purpose, twenty thousand Jewish men, women, and children had been brought to live in this village. A single shell had been fired on the settlement. It had caused six thousand degrees of heat, and the whole village — houses, human beings, and animals included— was burnt to ashes.
Obviously, as I see it now in retrospect, the Germans had nearly completed their atomic bomb and were almost ready to use it on the enemy when the encirclement of Berlin was complete.

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by OpanaPointer » 31 Aug 2019 14:10

Sergey Romanov wrote:
31 Aug 2019 11:48
OpanaPointer wrote:
31 Aug 2019 11:30
And have we looked for a retraction by Mr. Justice Jackson in regard to that comment?
Why would there be a retraction? He made no claim.
Now, I have certain information, which was placed in my hands, of an experiment which was carried out near Auschwitz and I would like to ask you if you heard about it or knew about it.
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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 14:33

OpanaPointer wrote:
31 Aug 2019 14:10
Sergey Romanov wrote:
31 Aug 2019 11:48
OpanaPointer wrote:
31 Aug 2019 11:30
And have we looked for a retraction by Mr. Justice Jackson in regard to that comment?
Why would there be a retraction? He made no claim.
Now, I have certain information, which was placed in my hands, of an experiment which was carried out near Auschwitz and I would like to ask you if you heard about it or knew about it.
Are you saying it was placed not in his hands but in some other part of his body? Or what? What exactly do you want to see retracted?

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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by OpanaPointer » 31 Aug 2019 16:39

I was wondering if he ever said "well, it wasn't what I first thought it was."
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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The Polish atomic bomb

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Aug 2019 17:15

He didn't take any stance on the veracity of the report, so there was nothing to retract.

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