Was Hitler a supporter of Zionism in the early 1930s?

[uberjude]

Well, Michael, if all you're saying is that Hitler provided material support for Zionism, without actually being a supporter of Zionism, as Hitler provided material support of Soviet Communism, without being a supporter of Soviet Communism, seems pretty moderate.

You can go tell it on the mountain.

[uberjude]

and WM, good call on the Mein Kampf quote.

Amazing what one can do when you go to the primary sources

[michael mills]

As sovereign State, this cannot be controlled by any of the other States. Therefore it can serve as a refuge for swindlers who have been found out.......

A reasonably accurate prediction. I know of least one swindler in Australia, Yigal Makler, who fled to Israel and could not be extradited, and there were some others whose names I can no longer remember.

But the crucial point is that, whatever may have been Hitler's views in the mid-1920s of a future Jewish State as a "school for swindlers", they did not prevent him in the 1930s from supporting the large-scale emigration of Jews from Germany to Palestine, including the transfer of their capital under the Ha'avara Scheme, even in the face of strong opposition from his own Foreign Office. For him the advantage of getting Jews out of Germany outweighed the fear of any mischief they might get up to in the places where they settled.

Note also that Hitler's objection to the Jewish State proposed by the Zionists was that not all Jews would actually live there, but that it would serve as a base for supporting allegedly nefarious activities by the Jews who would continue to live elsewhere. One wonders what his attitude would have been if all the Jews living in Europe, perhaps in the whole World, had settled in one place outside Europe, whence they would not be allowed to return. Would he have opposed that development? Hard to say. He obviously supported the idea of transporting all the Jews of Europe to Madagascar, an idea which may have been prompted by the brief dalliance of some Zionists (including Herzl!) with the proposal to settle Jews in Uganda.

[wm]

Criminals like to use law to their advantage. They are many, even recent, examples of Polish criminals fleeing to Israel and enjoying a safe haven there - including the known war criminal and mass murderer Salomon Morel.
But still, the known sex-offender Roman Polański preferred Poland, not the too-hot-for-comfort Israel - and can't be extradited either, and another mass murderer Helena Wolińska preferred Britain.

One of Hitler's goals was to make Germany free of Jews. In the thirties it was possible only by sending them to Palestine. A likely result of this would be a Jewish state.
The Jews wanted their state, Hitler a judenfrei Germany - so actually there were no common goals, only a temporary truce forced by circumstances.
Hitler supported the state as a dumping ground for "his" Jews. For him a real Israel was undesirable, unless it was something similar to that concentration camp Madagascar idea.

[Sergey Romanov]

So let's sum up: although some of Hitler's actions unwittingly benefited Zionism, Hitler did not support Zionism and was in fact an anti-Zionist.

[michael mills]

One reason why Hitler was amenable to the idea of moving Jews to Palestine was that there they would be under firm British control.

At the time he was in favour of the continued existence of the British Empire, of which Palestine was de facto a part, and he no doubt thought that the British would stay there indefinitely. He actually saw British rule in Palestine as a model for the proposed Jewish reservation in Madagascar.

He was certainly not in favour of an independent Jewish State, but neither were the British, or any other polity for that matter.

Some people seem to have to have a strong psychological barrier to accepting that Hitler could ever voluntarily have done something that a particular Jewish group wanted.

[wm]

As a realpolitik adherent he certainly was capable to form a pact with the world Jewry. The problem was the world Jewry had nothing useful for him to offer. It was a powerful political force, somewhat capable to influence politics in many countries but nowhere decisively - a giant with feet of clay. And seriously fragmented, as the joke was "two Jews means there might be at least three political parties present".
And it's hardly believable he thought it was possible to contain and police the Jews in Palestine as there were some kind of a pygmy tribe (with all due respects to today's pygmies).
The Jews were much more useful as scapegoats for his own political failures. I can't imagine how to fact that at the end of 1941 all great powers became Germany's enemies could have been explained away without "the Jew working behind the scenes".

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Michael,

You write, "One reason why Hitler was amenable to the idea of moving Jews to Palestine was that there they would be under firm Britrish control".

Yes, Hitler was an admirer of the British Empire, but what is the specific evidence for this proposition that their presence in Palestine influenced his decision making?

It seems more likely he just wanted rid of Germany's Jews and some of them wanted to go to Palestine, so there was some convergence of aim. Had the French (or anyopne else) been in charge of Palestine, it seems unlikely Hitler's attitude would have been much different.

Cheers,

Sid.

[uberjude]

He actually saw British rule in Palestine as a model for the proposed Jewish reservation in Madagascar.

Wouldn't be surprised, Michael, but source?


as for this--

Some people seem to have to have a strong psychological barrier to accepting that Hitler could ever voluntarily have done something that a particular Jewish group wanted.

I don't think anybody here has a particular issue with the notion that Hitler's interest in getting Jews into anyplace out of Europe coincided with the Zionists' goal of getting Jews in Palestine in particular, or that they worked together to achieve goals that fell into that particular nexus.

I believe what people object to is simply the implication that this made Hitler a "supporter of zionism."

to put it in a context you might relate to,

Some people seem to have to have a strong psychological barrier to accepting that Hitler could ever voluntarily have done something that a particular Communist group wanted.

After all, despite agreeing that Hitler provided support to the USSR, you wouldn't agree that he was a supporter of the USSR.

Is that because you have "strong psychological barrier," or because you would see such a statement as being disingenuous and dishonest?

[michael mills]

Sid,

I recommend this book to you:

Francis Nicosia: "The Third Reich and the Palestine Question" , published Austin : University of Texas Press, 1985 

Nicosia shows how Hitler before the war supported British rule in Palestine, and opposed any attempt to overthrow it, eg he opposed the Arab uprising of 1936. The also shows that Hitler's willingness to collaborate with the Zionist Organisation in organising Jewish emigration to Palestine was to a large degree dependent on the fact that there they would be under British control. 

To be sure, Hitler's overriding aim was to get Jews out of Germany, rather than to have them settle in any particular place. However, he saw Palestine as a better destination than some others since there they would be under British control. For example, he did not like the idea of sending Jews to Latin America, since he thought that they would quickly outwit the lazy Latinos and take over; the British however were made of sterner stuff and would not hesitate to slap the Jews down if they got uppity.

By the way, by "Hitler" I mean the German Government headed by him. Some of the views I have referred to were actually expressed by various agencies of the German Government rather than specifically by Hitler himself, but it is reasonable to assume that he agreed with those views, or at least did not oppose them.

[wm]

What was so wonderful about the British control. They were losing control left and right: Canada, Australia, New Zealand - all gone. It was madness to assume Palestine would have been different.

And the British didn't really rule Palestine, they were given a mandate from the League of Nations to administer it "until such time as it is able to stand alone".

[uberjude]

Michael, the assumption that those statements reflect things that Hitler believed or supported seems a bit spurious, without further evidence. It was hardly rare for different departments or officers in the Third Reich to hold and advocate contradictory positions--one has to assume that Hitler didn't agree with all of them.

We would also have to see context--I don't assume that Hitler was aware of every single statement made by an underling. Some minister making a statement is not the same thing as Hitler being aware of that statement, no of him approving. Even as far as having "no objections," again, not clear that this is an assumption one should make. A statement of opinion is not a policy--I don't know that Hitler would feel compelled to take note of some officials comment regarding "lazy latinos being outwitted by Jews."

I will certainly endeavor to find the Nicosia book, but in the meanwhile, anything in particular to connect Hitler to these positions?

[Neta Klein]

The evidence of friendship between Hitler and the Zionists was documented by the Nazis in Special "guest houses" called Concentration Camps
you can find those evidence in museums around the world.

[BarKokhba]

To WM
"As a realpolitik adherent he (Hitler) certainly was capable to form a pact with the world Jewry. The problem was the world Jewry had nothing useful for him to offer. It was a powerful political force, somewhat capable to influence politics in many countries but nowhere decisively - a giant with feet of clay." -wm.

It's disappointing to read your repetition of the absurd canard that "World Jewry" was, (or is), a "powerful political force...capable to influence politics in many countries..." In the 1930's ??? Where was it a force anywhere at that time? The vast majority of Jews in the 1930's were living in impoverished conditions in Eastern Europe, under the Soviet boot in Russia, in medieval conditions in North Africa and the Middle East, or under British occupation in the Palestine Mandate. In 1930's Western Europe and the US, Jews exhibited virtually no political power as a "group", in fact in the 1930's US Jews were barred from almost all law schools, banks, many post grad colleges, many corporations and even country clubs! Yes, a few individual Jewish people made it to the top in a few industries in the 1930's, but Jews absolutely did not have any "power" at that time. Even now, Jews are only 2% of the entire US population, and any "power" they exert in politics is incidental and not based on "group Jewry", based on individual achievement and activities of persons with Jewish origins. The red herring which you propitiate, that Jews act as a political/economic group that somehow has some sort of out-sized influence over world affairs then and now, is an anti-semitic myth disguised as "common knowledge". Please stop promoting dog-whistle anti-semitism in your otherwise sober comments. This is not Breitbart!

[michael mills]

The evidence of friendship between Hitler and the Zionists was documented by the Nazis in Special "guest houses" called Concentration Camps
you can find those evidence in museums around the world.

This is the silliest comment I have read in a long time.

The "special guest houses" to which the German Government sent Jews before the outbreak of war (and even afterwards, until late 1941) were situated in Palestine, and were called kibbutzim.