Are any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by Sergey Romanov » 13 May 2017 17:04

michael mills wrote:It is quite possible that the two photos show different scenes and come from different sources. There is nothing to say that both photos were found at the same time, or came from a single letter sent from Ukraine.
Both photos are inscribed with the same hand.

The events took place in the same year a few km from each other (Ivangorod is near Velikaya/Bolshaya Sevastyanovka).

Now engage your critical thinking skills.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by siwiec » 13 May 2017 17:09

history1 wrote: Interesting that the text in "Swiat" states that the photo is from the book "Cierpenie i Walka Narodu Polskiego 1939 - 1945 (str. 118-119)" = Suffering and Struggle of the Polish Nation 1939-1945 (p.118-119)!

Obviously those people didn´t even care to tell the truth that the photos are about Ivangorod in the Ukraine and not about the Polish city "Dęblin" which was known as Iwangorod in the 19. and early 20th century!
You lost me here, how it is obvious? Have you checked what's stated in that book? And if the photos published by Swiat are from that book, did they not publish texts behind the photos?

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 13 May 2017 19:39

Siwiec, a book memorising the fight and suffering of Poland due to the occupants in WWII and publishing a photo from the Ukraine!? Are you f.....g kidding me?

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 13 May 2017 19:42

Sergey Romanov wrote:[...]
The events took place in the same year a few km from each other (Ivangorod is near Velikaya/Bolshaya Sevastyanovka).

Now engage your critical thinking skills.
I would like to ask you to do the same. How this photos found a place in a book about Polands battle and suffering against the Nazi German occupants during WWII when not for propaganda purposes?

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 13 May 2017 19:49

Sergey Romanov wrote:[...]
Excuse me if I wasn't too clear, so let me rephrase that: who the hell cares what a caption in a non-specialist magazine said?
Who the hell cares for a popaganda photo which comes from the Polish resistance?
There´s no evidence whatsoever that this photos are not staged. A caption in German is NO proof that it´s from a German soldier/policeman or am I an Englishman because I write in English here?

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by Sergey Romanov » 13 May 2017 21:42

history1 wrote:
Sergey Romanov wrote:[...]
Excuse me if I wasn't too clear, so let me rephrase that: who the hell cares what a caption in a non-specialist magazine said?
Who the hell cares for a popaganda photo which comes from the Polish resistance?
There´s no evidence whatsoever that this photos are not staged. A caption in German is NO proof that it´s from a German soldier/policeman or am I an Englishman because I write in English here?
LOL, carry on with your denial.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by Sergey Romanov » 13 May 2017 21:46

history1 wrote:
Sergey Romanov wrote:[...]
The events took place in the same year a few km from each other (Ivangorod is near Velikaya/Bolshaya Sevastyanovka).

Now engage your critical thinking skills.
I would like to ask you to do the same. How this photos found a place in a book about Polands battle and suffering against the Nazi German occupants during WWII when not for propaganda purposes?
The photos were staged for this purpose by the Poles but were inscribed in Sütterlin to say that the events took place in Ukraine?

Sure, this makes sense. :roll:

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by siwiec » 13 May 2017 22:18

history1 wrote:Siwiec, a book memorising the fight and suffering of Poland due to the occupants in WWII and publishing a photo from the Ukraine!? Are you f.....g kidding me?
No, I'm not kidding but asking you a couple of question. I can think of several reasons why a photo from Ukraine might be in a such a book, you apparently cannot find but one based on your prejudice.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by wm » 13 May 2017 23:00

The book commemorated the twentieth anniversary of the invasion of Poland by the German Army, and obviously it wasn't only about Poland, as the introduction explained:
5 years after the liberation of 0świecim (Auschwitz)...when the memorials to the victims of fascism ere being violated, when a wave of anti-Semitism is spreading in various directions and when young people in schools are presented with a false picture of the past that is loathing to the memory of the victims of fascism. In order to warn the young generation against the recurrence of genocide, to protect young minds from racial hatred and a desire for revenge, we shall continue to disseminate the truth about the Third Reich and its policy of national extermination which led to such horrible results.
It wasn't just "a desire for revenge", at that time Germany wasn't merely rearming itself, the Germans actually were trying to arm their Bundeswehr with nuclear weapons (We do not want the Germans to be foot soldiers to America's nuclear knights), and adamantly were refusing to recognize the Germany–Poland border. So the threat was real.


history1 wrote:Another quote from the text:
Fotografia niniejsza zostala przejeta w 1942 roku przez komorke kontrwywiadu Armii Krajowe, dzialajaca na Poczcie Glownej w Warszawie. =
The below photopraphy got seized in 1942 by an counter-intelligence cell of the AK (Home Army) active in the main post office in Warsaw.
Who´s telling the truth now?
Precisely they were collecting military information inadvertently sent by Germans soldiers by snail mail to their families and friends in Germany. I thought they didn't monitor the return mail, maybe because it wasn't worth it.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by michael mills » 14 May 2017 02:43

The events took place in the same year a few km from each other (Ivangorod is near Velikaya/Bolshaya Sevastyanovka).
I do not fully understand what you are trying to say here.

Do you mean that the two photos show two different events at two different locations close to each other?

Perhaps the group of men shown in the second photo are the same as the men involved in the action shown in the first photo. In that case it is likely that the same person took both photos, and also wrote both inscriptions on them.

But the ground on which the corpses are lying in the second photo appears different from that shown in the first photo, ie it is a large area of light-coloured ground with no sign of the patch of disturbed earth shown on the right hand side of the first photo, adjacent to the group of crouching women and men, and also the shovels are not present.

So either the group of men altered the scene before taking the group photo, or the two photos show different scenes, perhaps occurring on different days in 1942 in neighbouring localities.

So far as I can see, no trail has been provided for the second photo similar to that for the first photo. For example, were both photos found in the same letter intercepted by Polish postal workers in behalf of the Underground? We do not know.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 14 May 2017 08:28

michael mills wrote:
The events took place in the same year a few km from each other (Ivangorod is near Velikaya/Bolshaya Sevastyanovka).
I do not fully understand what you are trying to say here.
Do you mean that the two photos show two different events at two different locations close to each other?[...]
That´s what Sergey states according the captions on the photos.
Last edited by history1 on 14 May 2017 08:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 14 May 2017 08:35

Sergey Romanov wrote:[...] The photos were staged for this purpose by the Poles but were inscribed in Sütterlin to say that the events took place in Ukraine?
Sure, this makes sense. :roll:
I don´t really think that they are staged!
I claim that a German caption is not a proof that the man, in whose mail they seized them, did take part in this action.
And I also think that in a book about the suffering of the Polish nation a photo showing war crimes in the Ukraine HAS NO PLACE! Especially when they are NOT POINTING OUT that the photo shows something what happened in the Ukraine!

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 14 May 2017 08:45

siwiec wrote:
history1 wrote:Siwiec, a book memorising the fight and suffering of Poland due to the occupants in WWII and publishing a photo from the Ukraine!? Are you f.....g kidding me?
[...] I can think of several reasons why a photo from Ukraine might be in a such a book, you apparently cannot find but one based on your prejudice.
Really? Then explain why the authors to NOT mention that this happened in the Ukraine and not in Poland!
regarding "prejudice": Dude, I know more about Poland and his citizens during WWII than you ever can imagine! A Polish relative of mine was in the KL Sztutowo imprisoned, so keep your prejudice and guessings at home!

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by history1 » 14 May 2017 08:56

wm wrote:The book commemorated the twentieth anniversary of the invasion of Poland by the German Army, and obviously it wasn't only about Poland, as the introduction explained:
5 years after the liberation of 0świecim (Auschwitz)...when the memorials to the victims of fascism ere being violated, when a wave of anti-Semitism is spreading in various directions and when young people in schools are presented with a false picture of the past that is loathing to the memory of the victims of fascism. In order to warn the young generation against the recurrence of genocide, to protect young minds from racial hatred and a desire for revenge, we shall continue to disseminate the truth about the Third Reich and its policy of national extermination which led to such horrible results.
[...]
wm, your quote doesn´t point on any foreign nations as you try to justify the photo from the Ukraine in the book "Fight and suffering of the POLISH NATION 1939-1945".
BTW, I prefer to read Polish texts myself no need to translate them without providing the original.

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Re: Do any of the allegations that some Holocaust photos are frauds true?

Post by siwiec » 14 May 2017 08:57

history1 wrote:Especially when they are NOT POINTING OUT that the photo shows something what happened in the Ukraine!
So how did they describe the photo instead? You have the book, share us with the relevant quotes or scans.
history1 wrote: Dude, I know more about Poland and his citizens during WWII than you ever can imagine! A relative of mine was even in the KL Sztutowo imprisoned, so keep your prejudice and guessings at home!
I'm not your "dude", and not interested in either guessing or imagination but what is actually stated in that book, which is why I asked you the questions in the first place but without any reasonable answer.

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