Clarification [Cremation]

[wbell]

Cremation was just one of several methods (or stages) of body disposal at the camps and in the field. When the goal is body disposal, "complete cremation" is unnecessary. Commercial or improvised pulverizers can obliterate any remaining chunks.

Absolutely, although I would hope that they would be cremated past the stage shown in the photo of the animals. As far as the death camps were concerned, I read somewhere where workers smashed the bones using wooden mallets (I was unaware that commercial pulverizers were used). Whole body burial was always a possibility, but I understand that Himmler was sensitive about leaving evidence behind...

[Max]

[...]
Well, Max, are you aware that they counted the teacher as 2 persons tough she´s very slim? And the guy taking the photo even as three. Why? In Auschwitz they unlikely claimed "oh, he´s a tall guy so he counts as three persons!". And when we this two = five people subtract from the claimed 22 people fitting in a square meter it makes a rest of still 17 people which for the sake of the best I don´t see in the image. But I see that the wooden sticks are not touching each other in the corner and that there is even some space between them!
Do you really think that the experiment would bring the same result with this people waiting in the grove at crematorium V in Birkenau?

Yes I'm aware.
It's not meant to prove anything except that the general concept is sound - a lot of people [Total 19] can fit onto a square metre.
I'm also aware that they are not crushed up against walls and probably not standing on each others feet. The two adults could have picked up a couple more kids [Total 21] maybe even two each if they were small enough [babies?] [Total 23]
The people in your pictures were stripped of their very bulky clothing before being pushed into the chambers.
So, yes I do believe a similar result was possible.

@ history1
I now regret posting the link - It did not occur to me that the photo of the school children would be posted here in this context.
I was somewhat distressed to see it this morning. No doubt the children's parents would be also if they saw it here.

Is there any chance that you could remove it from your post?
The link can stay of course, so that interested readers can access the photo if need be.

Cheers

EDIT a couple of hours later
I notice that, at my request, history1 has removed the image of the New Zealand school children that I had linked to.
Thankyou for your generous understanding.

[Sergey Romanov]

The characteristic cherry-red coloration of skin as result of carbon monoxide.

My apologies, blueness is a symptom of Cyanide poisoning. 'Blue discoloration of the skin may be a late finding (exposure under 8 hours) Reference: Center for Disease Control https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emerge ... 50037.html).

Either way, yellow cannot be mistaken for blue or red.

Nobody cares, poetic descriptions are not supposed to be taken literally.

[Sergey Romanov]

I will continue to ask some tough questions like where are the records of coke delivery to warrant the cremation of 1,000,000 people? If the cremations were on a pyre, where did the wood come from? Show me records of rail delivery or mass deforestation

Prove that there have to be surviving reports. I'll wait.

If people were gassed, what gas was used? Where are the shipment records to substantiate this?

LOL, really? Or maybe you should like, you know, research the readily available basics? It's all online, even.

It's hard to accept that we gassed 1000 people every 15 minutes with one gas chamber (or some other ridiculous notion).

Which exists only in your head?

It's difficult to accept any report or witness statement saying that there were 9 to 23 people shoved into a 1M space

LOLOLOL. 10 people is a normal density for a bus. You're completely clueless, aren't you?

[Sergey Romanov]

The last time we had a discussion here based on a demand for only one type of evidence -- these threads are unusual -- was about ten years ago. I recommend it to interested readers with free time on their hands:

Debating the number of Holocaust victims at Majdanek
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517

Thank you David. To be clear, I'm not requesting one type of evidence. What interests me is evidence that will collaborate direct evidence given by an eye witnesses. This is routinely done by investigators.

Sure. Start here: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

[Sergey Romanov]

Open-air pyres have been utilized over the centuries, In India today, it's still common practise. It does require a considerable amount of firewood and gasoline;

Sure, because in India you burn one corpse per pyre. Duh.

[Sergey Romanov]

With regard to the effectiveness of open-air cremations, perhaps there is data available

Sure.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ts-by.html

[Sergey Romanov]

...

I see Max acknowledged his error, so I'm deleting the response.

[Sergey Romanov]

Why use the term Revisionist?
I thought that It was usually applied to holocaust deniers
Is this application of the term revisionist now common?
I'm not well versed on this topic.
Cheers

Provan used to be a denier. He then abandoned denial but found the label "Revisionist" useful anyway.

[Sergey Romanov]

However ,I find still find this confusing

What confuses me is that there saying that you can draw a square one meter long and one meter wide and expect 24 people to stand inside the square. I think that the only way this is possible is to put a tall ladder in this space and have 24 people climb it. Hopefully you have a very tall ceiling and one long and strong ladder.

Here's what it looks like for 20 people to cram into a VW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2EDZRC ... e=youtu.be

It was a world record but had more than one square M of space...

Silly analogies and red herrings won't help you. It is an objective fact that you can achieve the density of 24 people in 1 sqm.

http://holocaust.skeptik.net/documents/ ... stein.html

[Sergey Romanov]

What is being suggested just doesn't appeal to my common sense.

An objective, proven fact does not appeal to your common sense.

Duly noted.

[wm]

My understanding was that the bodies were not stacked on top of each other but were layered with railroad ties, etc. in between. This would provide additional fuel to the pyre as well as allowing air flow in between the layers for more efficient combustion.

Additionally the heat from the lower layer, is simultaneously cremating the next layer.
Single-layer pyres waste lots of energy by pointlessly heating the air around them.

Absolutely, although I would hope that they would be cremated past the stage shown in the photo of the animals. As far as the death camps were concerned, I read somewhere where workers smashed the bones using wooden mallets (I was unaware that commercial pulverizers were used).

Although it was mentioned in this thread at least two times lately.

[wbell]

Prove that there have to be surviving reports. I'll wait.

LOL, really? Or maybe you should like, you know, research the readily available basics? It's all online, even.

Which exists only in your head?

You're completely clueless, aren't you?

Sure, because in India you burn one corpse per pyre. Duh.

Silly analogies and red herrings won't help you.

An objective, proven fact does not appeal to your common sense. Duly noted.

If you can't be pleasant, at least be polite. If your intent is to close people's ears to what you have to say; you're being successful. If not, try talking to people, not at them. A disrespectful and condescending attitude accomplishes nothing, other than to label you as ignoble.

[history1]

[...]@ history1
I now regret posting the link - It did not occur to me that the photo of the school children would be posted here in this context.
I was somewhat distressed to see it this morning. No doubt the children's parents would be also if they saw it here.

Is there any chance that you could remove it from your post?
The link can stay of course, so that interested readers can access the photo if need be.

Cheers

EDIT a couple of hours later
I notice that, at my request, history1 has removed the image of the New Zealand school children that I had linked to.
Thankyou for your generous understanding.

I don´t deserve your gratefulness. I just came now upon your request when the LINK to the photo on their website was already removed. I did not download the photo and upload it here. It was a direct link which the forum rules do NOT prohibit.
I assume it was David who followed your plea. Though I do not exactly understand why. There was no copyright violation or any violation of the forum rules. There are thousands of photos posted here ( photos even showing executed war criminals!) and everyone could claim " The successors would not like to see their dead family posted here on AHF". Would they get all removed? Unlikely.

However you got my message/comparisation hence the photo isn´t of need any longer.

[history1]

It's difficult to accept any report or witness statement saying that there were 9 to 23 people shoved into a 1M space

LOLOLOL. 10 people is a normal density for a bus. You're completely clueless, aren't you?

Wait, if 10 people/square meter is normal density in a bus why do our regular busses for transportation people from village to village provide only 61 standing places in their 12m long version? Do they offer only 6m² interspace in the whole lenght?
https://www.postbus.at/_downloads/Bus_m ... lurbus.pdf
I think what is "normal" in one country is not necessarily normal in another. Eg: In Russia it´s common to drive on the sidewalk with a car, and many do so when they want to avoid a traffic jam on the road or for other reasons. Do this here in my country and you´ll loose your drivers license for three month within minutes.