Clarification [Cremation]

[Sergey Romanov]

Cool. That leaves my opposition to conspiracy theories like Holocaust denial as the reason for you to call me a "fanatic". Good to know.

I think that it was mainly the 'against' part that gave me the impression of a fanatic.

Cool. We learn more and more about your "thinking processes" with each comment.

[wbell]

Cool. We learn more and more about your "thinking processes" with each comment.

That's excellent. If you can put down your sword, we both may have the opportunity to learn from each other. Have a good weekend.

[Sergey Romanov]

Cool. We learn more and more about your "thinking processes" with each comment.

That's excellent. If you can put down your sword, we both may have the opportunity to learn from each other. Have a good weekend.

Not until you address the fact that you deliberately took Wiernik's claim out of context:

- "It often happened that an arm or a leg fell off when we tied straps around them in order to drag the bodies away" - Gas doesn't cause this effect

We had to carry or drag the corpses on the run, since the slightest infraction of the rules meant a severe beating. The corpses had been lying around for quite some time and decomposition had already set in, making the air foul with the stench of decay. Already worms were crawling all over the bodies. It often happened that an arm or a leg fell off when we tied straps around them in order to drag the bodies away.

[wbell]

Not until you address the fact that you deliberately took Wiernik's claim out of context

I didn't deliberately take this out of context. I had recently read about the corpses being moved out of the gas chambers for disposal. The discussion about the massive numbers of executions. In my mind, I related the movement of bodies for cremation as recent. I didn't realize that what he was talking about were bodies that had been dead for some time and had decomposed to such a degree that the limbs were at a stage of separation.

I've been provided with quite a bit of information to sift through. For those who have studied this for years, what may be common knowledge, I have to read anew. I responded to the discussion without spending adequate time to review all the information available. I've requested that posters provide me with more concise information, as I find myself reading for some time to understand the specifics of what the respondent is referring to.

[Sergey Romanov]

OK.

[wm]

The people of India are of a smaller stature than Europeans, so I don't have a problem with more being able to fit into a m2.

At that time people were, on average, about ten centimeters shorter than today. And most were thin, obese persons were very rare. One of the most frequent comments on old photos websites, even American, is there is no fat people in sight at all. And Ghettos took their toll too, their main role was to make people very thin.

[wbell]

Hi wm,

That's true. my thoughts were based on the photos previously posted. Some of these people looked to me pretty big to me. I have however come to understand that more people can fit into the space than I originally thought.

[history1]

At that time people were, on average, about ten centimeters shorter than today. [...]

And though there were ten of thousands Waffen SS men with a minimal size of 170 cm = 5.57 feet.
And then is there the huge bulk of people who did not voluntary join the SS but also had the right size.

[Max]

At that time people were, on average, about ten centimeters shorter than today. [...]

And though there were ten of thousands Waffen SS men with a minimal size of 170 cm = 5.57 feet.
And then is there the huge bulk of people who did not voluntary join the SS but also had the right size.

Hi H1
I don't understand the point you are making.
Can you explain it a little further?
Cheers

[history1]

Hi Max,

wm wrote

At that time people were, on average, about ten centimeters shorter than today.

wbell responded

"That's true. my thoughts were based on the photos previously posted. Some of these people looked to me pretty big to me. I have however come to understand that more people can fit into the space than I originally thought."

what lead to my information that ten of thousands Waffen-SS men did fit the requested minimal size of 170cm. Irrespective of the people who didn´t join them and had the right size.
It´s also worth to keep in mind that there were also foreign SS volunteers from many European countries [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS ... conscripts] who did also pass this size request. What lead us to the fazit that wm´s claim is not hundred percent correct and the "big people" from the Auschwitz album photos are not an exceptional case.
Regards

[wm]

[history1]

Thanks for supporting my info, wm. There´s unlikely anyone who can consider an average size of 173 cm as small or medium sized. Do you have a similar chart of Hungary too maybe?

[Max]

Thanks for supporting my info, wm. There´s unlikely anyone who can consider an average size of 173 cm as small or medium sized

Perhaps not ,but how tall are the people in the photos? viewtopic.php?p=2108255#p2108255
Remember that they have been sorted as unfit for labour. The robust and tall are not in these photos.
They seem to be mostly women, children and older men.
Let's say the men are 60+ years old. They were born before 1880 when the average height for men born that year was about 167cm.
The women and children are considerably shorter than that.
It would be interesting to see similar graphs for Poles and USSR citizens.

[Max]

According to this, the average height of men in Europe [excluding Scandinavia (taller) and the Mediterranean South (shorter)] born in 1880 [therefore 60+ in the 1940s] was between 165 and 170 cm.
https://ourworldindata.org/human-height/
Average height of men by year of birth - Shows " No matching data" in Chart mode
Click on MAP button
Slide date button to 1880
Click the various colour blocks eg 165 - 170 cm - countries are outlined in yellow.
Float over a country to see average height. eg Hungary = 169.1cm - Poland = 166.8cm - Ukraine = 165.4cm

wm wrote

At that time people were, on average, about ten centimeters shorter than today.

The average 60+ year old Polish male today is 173.2 cm and the average 60+ year old Polish male back then [1940s] was about 166.8cm
Difference = 6.4cm

But the real point of all this is that the men in the photos are not average size at 173 cm but more like a much smaller average for their age of 166.8 cm.
The women and children are obviously even smaller.

[Max]

On further investigation I find that the people waiting in the grove are most likely Hungarians and not Poles as I had assumed for some reason or other.

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibiti ... oments.asp

The average height of Hungarian men born in 1880 [60+ years at the time of the photos] was 169.1 cm.
This is still short by today's standards.
Now looking at all of the photos in this album I see that the vast majority of victims were, in this case at least, women and children.
Presumably, the larger/fit men had been selected for labour.