What purpose does Holocaust denial serve ?

[demonio]

Ok say that the world was not so vigorous in defending historical events and didnt care less if the holocaust did happen or not. What i want to know is, Why is it so important to them to deny it happened ? It must be of some great utilitarian value, but for what i dont know.

Can someone(s) please fill me in ?

[Hans]

I recall seeing a television program on revisionism a few years ago which closed with Deborah Lipstadt making some statement to the effect that: "the real purpose of Holocaust revisionism is to make National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again." I normally don't agree with anything a Jew says, but I recall exclaiming, "Bingo! Got it in one! Give that lady a cigar!"

[demonio]

interesting and probably true

[Hans]

Normally I don't agree with anything a Nazi says, but when I read these lines I recall exclaiming "Bingo! Got it in one! Give that gentleman a cigar!".

[demonio]

[Scott Smith]

I recall seeing a television program on revisionism a few years ago which closed with Deborah Lipstadt making some statement to the effect that: "the real purpose of Holocaust revisionism is to make National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again." I normally don't agree with anything a Jew says, but I recall exclaiming, "Bingo! Got it in one! Give that lady a cigar!"

Actually "Bingo," this hits the nail on the head.

Without comic-opera Nazis like Mr. Covington under every bed the German Bundestablishment would have a hard time convincing the world that they are not Germans, oops, I mean Nazis.

Nobody is fooled of course. Goldhagen certainly wasn't.

By making Revisionist history illegal they force it underground or into the lunatic fringe like Herr Covington.

In fact, revisionism is part of the historical method. To say otherwise is orthodoxy and theology not historiography.

[Hans]

I recall seeing a television program on revisionism a few years ago which closed with Deborah Lipstadt making some statement to the effect that: "the real purpose of Holocaust revisionism is to make National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again." I normally don't agree with anything a Jew says, but I recall exclaiming, "Bingo! Got it in one! Give that lady a cigar!"

Actually "Bingo," this hits the nail on the head.

Without comic-opera Nazis like Mr. Covington under every bed the German Bundestablishment would have a hard time convincing the world that they are not Germans, oops, I mean Nazis.

I don't expect you to know about the net and relation of right wing extremism and "Revisionism" in the Germano-Franco area.

By making Revisionist history illegal they force it underground or into the lunatic fringe like Herr Covington.

You are confusing cause and result. Extremism is where "Revisionism" comes from and where it belongs to.

In fact, revisionism is part of the historical method.

That's why I prefer to use "Revisionism" or Holocaust denial to describe this movement.

[Maple 01]

I was going to write something witty and to the point (That will be the day...) about revisionism, only to find Hans had got to the main points already. Revisionism isn't about reviewing history with an open mind, it's about trying to 'prove' the nazis were the good guys by whatever means. As long as people are aware of this the whole kit and caboodle will remain the prerogative of the marginalized extreme right – and long may it be so!

-nick

[Scott Smith]

By making Revisionist history illegal they force it underground or into the lunatic fringe like Herr Covington.

You are confusing cause and result. Extremism is where "Revisionism" comes from and where it belongs to.

The only one that comes close to that is Zündel and he is merely a propagandist, not a true Revisionist.

Nevertheless the Nachfolge Germans are so afraid of Zündel having free-speech that they've had to lock him up.

One of the first Revisionists, Rassinier, was a Socialist who had been imprisoned in concentration camps by the Nazis. Barnes, Beard, and Hoggan were college professors. Faurisson and Butz are both retired college professors. Berg is a harmless retired engineer and artist. Mattogno hardly seems the Nazi type either. And the closest that Rudolf comes to neo-National Socialism is having once worn a Luftwaffe uniform.

[Scott Smith]

Revisionism isn't about reviewing history with an open mind, it's about trying to 'prove' the nazis were the good guys by whatever means.

No, revisionism (small r) is about shattering orthodoxies. It doesn't always succeed of course, and sometimes Revisionism (large R) has its own dogmas, of which I as a Skeptic am frequently critical of.

One of the orthodoxies is that the Nazis necessarily were the bad-guys and that the Allies (including the Soviets) were therefore necessarily the good-guys.

It is illegal to explore that concept in Germany and many other countries like France that curry favor with Zionist interest groups.

Of course, History that avoids taboos and inconvenient minefields is akin to patriotic nonsense or even theology, not historiography.

[Hans]

Berg is a harmless retired engineer and artist.

ROTFLOL!

Do you really want me to post some of Berg's "harmless" statements he made in the German usenet? Such as "how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth." (my translation)?

[Hans]

David Irving next to skindhead chef Hainke.

Photo from Schmidt, Michael, Heute gehört uns die Straße... Der Inside-Report aus der Neonazi-Szene (Today the Streets are Ours: The Inside Report from the Neo-Nazi Scene), 1994, p. 10.

If it walks like a duck...

[Scott Smith]

Berg is a harmless retired engineer and artist.

ROTFLOL!

Do you really want me to post some of Berg's "harmless" statements he made in the German usenet? Such as "how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth." (my translation)?

Do you want me to post some of the harmless statements of Teddy Roosevelt or other pure Anglo-Saxon Protestants that have been collated by Leftist revisionists? Thomas Jefferson once said in all seriousness that the Negro race literally stank. Big deal. And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations. Stick to published essays and papers. Besides, Roberto has been known to launch a zinger now and then, such as threatening to kill Ted O'Keefe. (I'm sure he will now link to the Soccer thread for you).

I expect there to be friction between the Nachfolge and unreeducated German idealists like Berg. As I noted in the now-banned link to a thread at Hannover's site, the Germans have the mentality of a defeated people and their attitude is not surprising at all.

[Hans]

"Revisionist" meeting in France with David Irving. In the audience, German right-wing extremist Wilhelm Stäglich and German-canadian "National Socialist" Ernst Zündel (according to his own words).

[Maple 01]

Do you want me to post some of the harmless statements of Teddy Roosevelt or other pure Anglo-Saxon Protestants that have been collated by Leftist revisionists? Thomas Jefferson once said in all seriousness that the Negro race literally stank.

Well you can if you like, but I don't see how it will help your case, they are all dead to the best of my knowledge, and products of their time, where as Hainke et al are very-much with us!

Revisionism (capital R) is personified for me by that busted flush David Irving, trying to get the historical facts to bend to his wishes and dreams, only to be made a fool at every turn - enjoy!

-Nick