What purpose does Holocaust denial serve ?

[Hans]

And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations.

Except that Berg was saying this not as response to provocation but as response to a post he mostly agreed with anyway. He only wanted to "express it more radically":

"how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth."

[Roberto]

Revisionism isn't about reviewing history with an open mind, it's about trying to 'prove' the nazis were the good guys by whatever means.

No, revisionism (small r) is about shattering orthodoxies.

Where did Smith get that definition from?

And what are "orthodoxies" supposed to be?

[Scott Smith]

David Irving next to skindhead chef Hainke. [...]

If it walks like a duck...

Irving is not a Holocaust historian. He is a Hitler historian. He seems to have distanced himself from Revisionism anyway and regrets earlier sweeping comments, at least it would seem to me.

But your guilt-by-association picture does nothing. Isn't this a crude attempt at McCarthyism? Of course the Rechtsextreme would be interested in hearing Irving speak since he is a Rightwing Hitler historian. His books contain little of the venom that his critics charge.

Anyway, I'm sure the Green Party has all the answers to immigration and everything else. They will provide meaningful employment, won't they. Will they be banned if they fail?

[Scott Smith]

Revisionism isn't about reviewing history with an open mind, it's about trying to 'prove' the nazis were the good guys by whatever means.

No, revisionism (small r) is about shattering orthodoxies.

Where did Smith get that definition from?

And what are "orthodoxies" supposed to be?

You might want to read some books on historiography (not related to the Holocaust) or what historians write about each other and the methods of the Art and Science of History.

[Scott Smith]

And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations.

Except that Berg was saying this not as response to provocation but as response to a post he mostly agreed with anyway. He only wanted to "express it more radically":

"how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth."

Again, so what? Words are not such a big deal when free-speech is the case. Dr. Keren has used some zingers too and his supporters admit he is a handful.

[Hans]

David Irving next to skindhead chef Hainke. [...]

If it walks like a duck...

Irving is not a Holocaust historian.

Of course not!

But your guilt-by-association picture does nothing. Isn't this a crude attempt at McCarthyism? Of course the Rechtsextreme would be interested in hearing Irving

Bingo! A cigar for gentleman! Revisionism (large R) is the propaganda for and by right wing extremists.

Anyway, I'm sure the Green Party has all the answers to immigration and everything else.

Pardon?

[Hans]

And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations.

Except that Berg was saying this not as response to provocation but as response to a post he mostly agreed with anyway. He only wanted to "express it more radically":

"how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth."

Again, so what?

Nothing what we wouldn't knew already. Berg is an antisemite.

[Scott Smith]

Well you can if you like, but I don't see how it will help your case, they are all dead to the best of my knowledge, and products of their time, where as Hainke et al are very-much with us!

And we are not baaad like Hainke and Irving; we are products of OUR time. Burn the heretics!

[Hans]

Here are some interesting statements of "National Socialist" and Revisionist propagandist Zündel:

Zündel says he dislikes the 'parasitic nature and actions' of Jews in the world...

"The Jews created Hitler", says Ernst Zündel

"They live a parasitic existence..."

cites an early David Irving contention that "...fewer Jews died during the the entire war than the British killed during one single bombing raid on one German city on one night."

"Eichmann was a Jew..."

"The corrupt oligarchy that calls itself the Canadian government..."

"Less than Twenty Thousand Jews Died at Auschwitz

[Karl]

In reply to the question at hand…

…no purpose.

k

[Scott Smith]

And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations.

Except that Berg was saying this not as response to provocation but as response to a post he mostly agreed with anyway. He only wanted to "express it more radically":

"how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth."

Again, so what?

Nothing what we wouldn't knew already. Berg is an antisemite.

An anti-Semite, according to Dr. Mathis, is someone who has an irrational fear and hatred of Jews.

Does one find that in any of Berg's essays? I don't think so. Nevertheless, his views come from experience--and his ideas have seldom been appreciated by the Jewish community. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy then, doesn't it?

Criticize Jews and Israel, you are an anti-Semite.

Sack and Finkelstein can only get away with it because they are Jews themselves. No American politician could do it; both Christians and Jews would boot them out instantly. And the rest of the world knows that the USA is what gives racist, militant Israel its backbone--one of the many reasons they hate the proverbial Ugly American.

Hans, have you ever lost your job because of an essay that you wrote?

Well, Berg has, and so has his wife, who lost her job for translating a German wartime technical report that Berg used in one of his papers.

[Maple 01]

And we are not baaad like Hainke and Irving; we are products of OUR time. Burn the heretics!

OK, no problem, got a light? You're confusing me with a wishy washy liberal again.

Irving is not a Holocaust historian

No, he's a Holocaust denier - proven in a court of law (oh how quickly they forget.....)


-Nick

[Roberto]

Besides, Roberto has been known to launch a zinger now and then, such as threatening to kill Ted O'Keefe.

I didn’t merely threaten to kill the fellow. I asked him to give me his name and address so I could look him up and tear his throat out, even if that was the last thing I did. And I meant it.

I'm sure he will now link to the Soccer thread for you).

I would love to so readers can find out about the precedents of a statement I’m quite proud of (O’Keefe, one of the most disgusting pieces of "Revisionist" scum, uttered a lowly insult involving a person close to me and deserved no better, and I’m sure any man with red blood in his veins would have reacted the way I did), but unfortunately Marcus has removed the old Ezboard forum’s archive. Maybe he can place this interesting thread:

Soccer
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... 41&stop=60

in the archives of this forum, for the benefit of our audience.

I expect there to be friction between the Nachfolge and unreeducated German idealists like Berg.

Words of an "unreeducated German idealist":

1. “Auschwitz was a nice place to spend the war--compared to many of the alternatives.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... nice-place

2. “With all of the bleating about the dearly beloved and lost six million Jews, one may lose sight of the fact that real war crimes occurred during WW2 and that these real war crimes were at least partially inspired by Jewish hatemongers not unlike many of the hatemongers busily at work in this newsgroup.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

3. “If the Nazis had gassed people to death that would have been a crime but that would still have been humane compared to what this country actually did and then watched on television on Sunday nights for years with Walter Cronkite providing commentary in the Twentieth Century and Air Power CBS TV series. No wonder that Silence of the Lambs was such a successful movie--America is a criminally insane society from top to bottom!”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

4. “Take down those crosses and menorahs from your alt ars and put up replicas of atomic bombs insteads because atomic bombs are what has saved this country so far from some of the consequences of its own criminal stupidity and viciousness. Without nuclear weapons you would all be praying for Adolf to come back and save your assess from Communism and the Jews.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

5. “Modern Germany is dominated by Jews; that is what the current hate laws in Germany and elsewhere really show. But, that is all ending and soon.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

6. “If I were descended from one of the lost tribes of Israel, I wouldn't talk about; I would keep it as deep a family secret as I possibly could. Anybody eager to be a member of a bunch of genocidal savages, which is precisely what the ancient Hebrews really were, should have his head examined.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

7. “The deliberate murder of civilians was begun by the British, aided and abetted with the full support including financing from the USA. The people responsible for such crimes shouldn't just be hung as war criminals, they should be burned alive. That's the punishment that Eisenhower, Bomber Harris, Churchill, and many others truly deserved. Compared to them, Adolf Hitler was and always will be a saint.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

8. “Nazi Germany, despite its faults, was still a far more civilized and livable society than this pigsty is ever likely to be. The few good things that can be send about America, freedom of speech is about it, do not make up for the fact that America has been the mortal enemy of civilization ever since the Civil War.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

9. “Mr Kaufman is obviously Jewish and a living example of why the Nazis tried to remove Jews from Europe and short of that, into concentration camps for the duration of the war.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

10. “Maybe some other engineer out there in cyberland will have the patience to teach this Jewish trash something about the real world. I have lost my patience.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0694

11. “The fact that most of these creatures are Jewish is no coincidence. The Holocaust hoax is an essential feature of modern Jewish identity just as the imagined persecutions of Jews by Pharoah and others was an essential feature to earlier Jewish generations. In other words, there is an enormous genetic component to the Holocaust hoax. It is essentially a Jewish hoax that has been carefully taylored to appeal to unsuspecting goyim.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.0794

12. “I suggest you look at the handiwork of PIGS like you. Take a good look someday at pictures of real holocaust victims from the cities where millions of women and children were murdered, often by being roasted alive, by PIGS like you.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... /berg.9808

13. “If the Nazis had murdered millions of innocent people in gas chambers that certainly would have been a great and deplorable crime - but, it would still have been humane compared to what the Allies actually did during World War II. The US and Great Britain murdered millions of innocent people by quite literally roasting them to death. The Jewish involvement in those crimes, especially the nuclear bombing of Japan, are as deep as anyone's.”
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ ... nt-of-berg

14. “Folks, we are dealing here with a Jew from the gutter and a congenital lying Jew. This ain't no high class Jew, not by light years, even if some institution of higher learning foolishly gave him a doctorate, which is incredible anyway. This guy is trash and that fits perfectly with his
avocation--holocaust hate-mongering. He deserves no pity when the reckoning finally comes.”
(From a Usenet discussion with Daniel Keren, as reported to me by the latter.)

15. “Keep the Faith fellow revisionists. The Nazis and the SS were the good guys--but the anti-Nazis and the anti-revisionists dare not admit it for fear of losing their fabulous, ill gotten gains from the war.”
http://www.codoh.org/dcforum/DCForumID9/10

It’s not only the "Nachfolge" who detest such manure, of course. My late father was ten years older than Berg, and he would have slapped such utterances left and right around the ears of this "unreeducated idealist".

As I noted in the now-banned link to a thread at Hannover's site, the Germans have the mentality of a defeated people and their attitude is not surprising at all.

Smith obviously still knows nothing at all about German mentality, despite the beatings he has taken from "defeat-minded" Germans on this forum.

But I reckon that, being as he is an all-round loser who associates with similar failures (which is what his fellow "Revisionist" true believers mostly are), he knows better than anyone else on this forum what the "mentality of a defeated people" looks like.

[Hans]

And Intenet discussions are hardly free from heat and provocations.

Except that Berg was saying this not as response to provocation but as response to a post he mostly agreed with anyway. He only wanted to "express it more radically":

"how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth."

Again, so what?

Nothing what we wouldn't knew already. Berg is an antisemite.

An anti-Semite, according to Dr. Mathis, is someone who has an irrational fear and hatred of Jews.

Yep. So according to Dr. Mathis, Friedrich "how nice for the Amis - and their real masters, the Jews. If that continues, they will be only Jews and their slaves on the earth" Berg is an antisemite.

Does one find that in any of Berg's essays?

Revisionist writings are usually not open antisemitic (and exception would be guys like Jürgen Graf). Their authors often are, see Berg, and their antisemitism and some other ideologies are the cause for their engagement in Revisionism. Berg's contribution to fight the Jews, the real masters, and to help the non-Jews to stand up against them is to show that the Genocide the Nazis commited at the Jews is a fraud. If he were succesfull, this would be a powerful mean to stand up against the Jews. However, as the Holocaust is no fraud, this results in lies, misinterpretation, absurd standards and methodology Berg needs to apply in order to deny it.

[Scott Smith]

Besides, Roberto has been known to launch a zinger now and then, such as threatening to kill Ted O'Keefe.

I didn’t merely threaten to kill the fellow. I asked him to give me his name and address so I could look him up and tear his throat out, even if that was the last thing I did. And I meant it.

Does this give you credibility among your peers? I don't think you should hang with such "friends." I am worried about you.

But I reckon that, being as he is an all-round loser who associates with similar failures (which is what his fellow "Revisionist" true believers mostly are), he knows better than anyone else on this forum what the "mentality of a defeated people" looks like.

Doesn't the shoeshine boy get a hug?

Hmmm, note to self: Curious why Nizkor links do not get deleted as Hate-Site materials...