A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

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wbell
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A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#1

Post by wbell » 24 Nov 2017, 17:53

When I think of a declaration of War, a National Government comes to mind. They pass a formal Act of Parliament by which one State goes to War against another. What happens if the other Party is not a State, but an idea?

In the United States, there has been a War on Communism, a War on Poverty, a War on Drugs, and now a War on Terror.
The War on Terror has become as real as many traditional wars with tremendous suffering and death. It affects our lives daily.

War of Ideas have been fought throughout our history. Wars between clans, tribes, religions and ethnic groups. They have forged much of what the world is today.

According to The Daily Express of London of March 24, 1933, Jews launched a boycott against Germany and its elected government. The headline read “Judea Declares War on Germany – Jews of All the World Unite – Boycott of German Goods – Mass Demonstrations.”

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Finally my question: Why did the Jewish organizations feel that they needed to "Declare War on Germany?" Once War was declared, was Germany substantiated in declaring war on Judaism? What steps were taken to avoid conflict? Why were they not successful? I haven't found much by way of explanation on this topic, so any comments are appreciated.

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#2

Post by Sheldrake » 24 Nov 2017, 18:31

wbell wrote:When I think of a declaration of War, a National Government comes to mind. They pass a formal Act of Parliament by which one State goes to War against another. What happens if the other Party is not a State, but an idea?
It isn't a war.

Politicians declaring war on abstract concepts to deflect attention for the paucity of their options or to distract from unpalatable truths. But declarations of war on abstract concepts have no relevance in the law of armed conflict.

Furthermore, the call for action by the worlds jewry did not amount to a war. It was a trade boycott not a call to arms.


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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#3

Post by shamirnewell » 24 Nov 2017, 20:19

The economic boycott was called because of headlines like this:

Pictured is Dr Michael Siegel being paraded through Munich on March 10 1933.
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wbell
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#4

Post by wbell » 24 Nov 2017, 20:32

Sheldrake wrote: It isn't a war. ...Furthermore, the call for action by the worlds jewry did not amount to a war. It was a trade boycott not a call to arms.
War does not necessitate armed conflict. By definition it may include "a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism." (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war)

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wbell
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#5

Post by wbell » 24 Nov 2017, 21:03

Persecution of Jews was not anything new in history. In the early 1900's there were:

1900 Prussia Mob Attack
1902 Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 Bavaria Expulsion
1915 Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 Berlin Mob Attack
1933 Bucharest Mob Attacks
(Source Judaism online: https://www.simpletoremember.com/articl ... rsecution/)

The Jews have been horribly treated in and outside Germany. Why then was Germany selected (and not Russia for example) as the nation to declare war on? Did this declaration increase further hatred by Germany and other nations?

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#6

Post by Ironmachine » 24 Nov 2017, 21:32

wbell wrote:Finally my question: Why did the Jewish organizations feel that they needed to "Declare War on Germany?" Once War was declared, was Germany substantiated in declaring war on Judaism? What steps were taken to avoid conflict? Why were they not successful? I haven't found much by way of explanation on this topic, so any comments are appreciated.
you might want to take a look at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196047

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#7

Post by wm » 24 Nov 2017, 21:38

What happened in Poland 1902, or actually in Lemberg 1929?

As far as I can find in Lemberg (properly Lwów) Antifa like female students of a Jewish private gymnasium (according to the usually reliable largest Polish daily IKC - partially financed by Jewish capital to boot) verbally and even physically (by "pelting with apple cores") attacked a religious procession, which happened to walk right by the windows of the gymnasium.
This led to students riots where the sole victims were Polish students, arrested by the dozens and brutally pacified with rifle butts by the police, and some property of Jewish newspapers.

I would be very careful with such lists, interesting facts could be found if sources are examined carefully.

wbell wrote:According to The Daily Express of London of March 24, 1933, Jews launched a boycott against Germany and its elected government. The headline read “Judea Declares War on Germany – Jews of All the World Unite – Boycott of German Goods – Mass Demonstrations.”
A "clickbait" headline in a tabloid.

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wbell
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#8

Post by wbell » 24 Nov 2017, 21:56

Ironmachine wrote:you might want to take a look at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196047
Thank you.

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#9

Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » 24 Nov 2017, 22:08

Post 1917 Russia had many leading
figures with jewish backgrounds,
most known is probably Trotsky.

Did the large known prognoms there
not end with the tsar?

W

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wbell
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#10

Post by wbell » 24 Nov 2017, 22:19

wm wrote: I would be very careful with such lists, interesting facts could be found if sources are examined carefully.
...A "clickbait" headline in a tabloid.
Thanks wm. My point was that Jews have been the subject of persecution for centuries. I think that this is an accepted fact (one that I shouldn't think would require references). My question why boycott Germany (and not one of the many other nations that may be as deserving) at that time? I also read that the call for protest was instituted by the American Jewish Conference (Source: American Jewish Historical Society).

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wm
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#11

Post by wm » 24 Nov 2017, 22:50

Well, if they were boycotting Germany and nobody else, doesn't it prove they were afraid of Germans and nobody else?

At that time labor unions thought they had a God given right to bring a country to its knees with a general strike. The socialists were constantly dreaming about such a game-over strike. The fascists and the nazis about paralyzing the country mass demonstrations (like the March on Rome). Lets not forget about the communists with their bloody by definition revolutions.
What the Jews did wasn't extremism, or even mainstream - it was basically nothing in comparison.

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#12

Post by wm » 24 Nov 2017, 22:56

Waleed Y. Majeed wrote:Did the large known prognoms there not end with the tsar?
They replaced them with non-racist country wide pogroms called purges.
And really they weren't that large (the largest was like a few dozens people) and were frequently a part of general "disturbances" like the bloody 1905 revolution.

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wbell
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#13

Post by wbell » 25 Nov 2017, 10:56

wm wrote:...What the Jews did wasn't extremism, or even mainstream - it was basically nothing in comparison.
It was however an overt act against Germany by an identifiable group. Would it be not be expected for Germany to consider Jews to be hostile to its ideal and identify them as an enemy?

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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#14

Post by OpanaPointer » 25 Nov 2017, 13:12

wbell wrote:
wm wrote:...What the Jews did wasn't extremism, or even mainstream - it was basically nothing in comparison.
It was however an overt act against Germany by an identifiable group. Would it be not be expected for Germany to consider Jews to be hostile to its ideal and identify them as an enemy?
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Re: A Nation Can Declare War on an Idea

#15

Post by David Thompson » 25 Nov 2017, 17:00

wbell -- You wrote:
It [the boycott] was however an overt act against Germany by an identifiable group. Would it be not be expected for Germany to consider Jews to be hostile to its ideal and identify them as an enemy?
For a previous discussion in the H&WC section on this topic, already referenced by Ironmachine (at viewtopic.php?p=2109995#p2109995), see:

"Crippling embargos on Germany over the Jewish question"
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196047

Your manner of raising the question omits mentioning the Nazi provocations for the boycott, and instead suggests that that the boycott was itself a provocation of Germany. The problems with this line of reasoning are:

(1) The anti-semitic policies of the Nazi party preceded the boycott. Jews in Germany were targeted by the Nazis for oppression from the time the Nazi party (NSDAP) was founded in 1920. See:

The Program of the NSDAP (1920/1941)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69141

(2) The situation of Jews in Germany had markedly worsened within the two months after Hitler came to power on January 30, 1933, and before the boycott:

An American Diplomat in Germany 1929-1939
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=14954
American Consul in Berlin 1930-1934
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15121
Nazi Attacks on US Citizens Mar 1933
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15133
Nazi Anti-Semitism 1933: Why Were They Sadistic?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=19011

See also the discussion of the violent 1933 anti-semitic disorders in Germany, and the resulting anti-German and anti-Jewish boycotts in Foreign Relations of the United States, 1933 vol. 2, pp. 320-366
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1933v02

For contemporaneous accounts of the deteriorating condition of Jews in Germany for the next five years see:

Foreign Relations of the United States, 1934 vol. 2, pp. 291-301
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1934v02
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1935 vol. 2, pp. 391-412
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1935v02
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1936 vol. 2, pp. 192-206
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1936v02
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1937 vol. 2, pp. 319-327
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1937v02
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1938 vol. 2, pp. 355-418
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bi ... RUS1938v02

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