Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

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Art
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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by Art » 25 Aug 2019 23:01

Sergey Romanov wrote:
25 Aug 2019 21:50
Friendship is friendship and includes the notion of alliance.
No. For example, there was a Soviet-Italian treaty of friendship, non-aggression, and neutrality of 1933 which was technically still in force in August 1939. Still, I don't remember anybody talking about Soviet-Italian alliance. Not to add that "alliance and neutrality" is an oxymoron somehow.
What was quoted was posted on an official government site and thus consitutes an official opinion.
"According to the chief of press service and information of the Ministry of Defense Aleksandr Drobyshevsky, quoted by Interfax, this article shouldn't be considered as an official point of view of the Ministry".
https://lenta.ru/news/2009/06/04/opinion/
I believe, "an official opinion" which is not an official opinion according to officials is also an oxymoron
Not to add that the article was promptly removed from the website after the scandal broke out.

Note that "pact" is different from secret protocols. The statement of 1989 mentioned above condemned protocols but not the pact itself. In regard to the non-aggression treaty it was said that its content didn't contradict to the international law, but it was ineffective as a means to prevent Hitler's attack on Soviet Union. I'm agree that the recent statement demonstrate much change in assessment of the treaty's effect and effectiveness of Soviet policy as whole compared with 1989.
I don't think that condemnation of the protocols automatically means that the pre-war policy of Poland, Britain or France should be considered beyond any criticism. At least the statement of 1989 didn't imply anything like this.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by Sergey Romanov » 26 Aug 2019 08:42

An article officially posted on the official Ministry of Defense is an official opinion, even if the embarrassed officials later don't want it to be so (so the later statement doesn't play any role).

The official statements I posted *obviously* defend the whole of the pact, not making any exception for its secret parts.

There are many meanings to "allies", it's not necessarily someone who will fight *for* you or supports you in every single endeavor, but yes, thank you for bringing up the fact that USSR was also officially a friend of the Italian Fascists. What a company.

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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by gebhk » 26 Aug 2019 09:20

Whether mere publishing of images is newsworthy I'll leave to the others to decide.
Given that in the UK, for example, many if not most folk don't know that the M-R pact ever happened and have difficulty believing that it did, I would say that photographs are very valuable.....

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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by Sergey Romanov » 26 Aug 2019 09:57

Maybe, but such publications should contain the comment that the documents were published decades ago, so as not to misleadingly imply that something groundbreaking is happening.

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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by OpanaPointer » 26 Aug 2019 10:24

"Nations don't have friends, they have interests."
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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by gebhk » 26 Aug 2019 10:52

OpanaPointer wrote:
26 Aug 2019 10:24
"Nations don't have friends, they have interests."
The trouble comes from who interprets what those interests are and how. :?

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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by OpanaPointer » 26 Aug 2019 11:41

gebhk wrote:
26 Aug 2019 10:52
OpanaPointer wrote:
26 Aug 2019 10:24
"Nations don't have friends, they have interests."
The trouble comes from who interprets what those interests are and how. :?
Oh, come on! Politicians don't ever quibble, waffle or prevaricate!
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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2019 23:11

OpanaPointer wrote:
26 Aug 2019 10:24
"Nations don't have friends, they have interests."
and pacta sunt servanda - agreements must be kept, by attacking Poland and the Baltic states the USSR broke several international agreements.

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Re: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Published in Moscow

Post by OpanaPointer » 26 Aug 2019 23:28

wm wrote:
26 Aug 2019 23:11
OpanaPointer wrote:
26 Aug 2019 10:24
"Nations don't have friends, they have interests."
and pacta sunt servanda - agreements must be kept, by attacking Poland and the Baltic states the USSR broke several international agreements.
Agreements should be kept unless there is an advantage to not keeping them. Politicians are pragmatic.
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