Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by David Thompson » 16 Aug 2019 21:20

Stiltzkin -- You wrote:
If I recall correctly, then it is against the forum rules to deny any form of crime.
Your recollection is faulty. Please review the forum rules at app.php/rules, and if you are quoting someone, give their name so our readers don't have to guess.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 21:57

Stiltzkin wrote:
16 Aug 2019 20:43
Labels obviously do. We were talking about specific labels, remember?

For all those with a minimal attention span let me repeat again: we were talking about specific labels.

Should I repeat once more?
The greatest irony here is, that one of the most avid contributors in the Holocaust section, the "bastion" and blogger against deniers, also emerges as a denier of Soviet atrocities,
Haven't denied any, so you are caught in a direct lie, nice to know anything else by you can be dismissed from now on.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Stiltzkin » 16 Aug 2019 23:36

Your recollection is faulty. Please review the forum rules at app.php/rules
1.) There is holocaust denial. Which is genocide. Per definition, ethnic cleansing and genocide can also overlap https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10 ... 232116-e-3
give their name so our readers don't have to guess.
If I quote the message of the respective poster, the readers are probably capable and intelligent enough to associate and to deduce.
As for the explanation of the issue, I have my own theory and have build an opinion based on the posts (and private discussions with other members) in the respective subsection on war crimes (and other topics) and came to the conclusion that this must go beyond mere nationalism.
Haven't denied any, so you are caught in a direct lie, nice to know anything else by you can be dismissed from now on.
It does not look particularly trustworthy if a user devoted to the exposure of holocaust deniers is relativizing Soviet crimes, which makes it appear untrustworthy (camouflage). What matters here is whether this information is true or not and whether the NKVD executed such actions.
The AHF might be even infiltrated and thus compromised (as many platforms and forums are), with the purpose of questioning or relativizing any Russian crime and to burnish the image of the "clean" liberator, which is quite disgusting ( :x ) and that is all I have to say. There is probably no such thing as an independent researcher in the Federation, only government liaisons. Not to mention the numerous attempts of discrediting Snyder (predominantly by Russian posters) who specializes in Soviet crimes and demanded to raise the Soviet Union morally on Nazi levels, hardly a coincidence.
Last edited by Stiltzkin on 16 Aug 2019 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:41

Stiltzkin wrote:
16 Aug 2019 23:36
Haven't denied any, so you are caught in a direct lie, nice to know anything else by you can be dismissed from now on.
It does not look particularly trustworthy if a user devoted to the exposure of holocaust deniers is relativizing Soviet crimes, which makes it appear untrustworthy (camouflage). What matters here is whether this information is true or not and whether the NKVD executed such actions.
The AHF might be even infiltrated and thus compromised (as many platforms and forums are), with the purpose of questioning or relativizing any Russian crime and to burnish the image of the "clean" liberator, which is quite disgusting ( :x ) and that is all I have to say. There is probably no such thing as an independent researcher in the Federation, only government liaisons. Not to mention the numerous attempts of discrediting Snyder who specializes in Soviet crimes and demanded to raise the Soviet Union morally on Nazi levels.
Since no such relativization has taken place, you have been caught in a second direct lie, right after your first one has been pointed out. Are you some pissed off Holocaust denier or something?

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Stiltzkin » 16 Aug 2019 23:42

Since no such relativization has taken place, you have been caught in a second direct lie, right after your first one has been pointed out. Are you some pissed off Holocaust denier or something?
That is a personal attack and construction which is an insult and I dont take it lightly, I hope the moderators will delete this, as it is also against forum rules. People who deny the holocaust and also relativize other crimes such as genocide or ethnic cleansings, equally disgusting, whether it is the Armenian genocide, or actions such as Katyn etc..
Last edited by Stiltzkin on 16 Aug 2019 23:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:44

Stiltzkin wrote:
16 Aug 2019 23:42
Since no such relativization has taken place, you have been caught in a second direct lie, right after your first one has been pointed out. Are you some pissed off Holocaust denier or something?
That is a personal attack and construction which is an insult and I dont take it lightly, I hope the moderators will delete this, as it is also against forum rules.
Pointing out your two direct lies is an insult? LOL.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Stiltzkin » 16 Aug 2019 23:45

Pointing out your two direct lies is an insult? LOL.
Two questions remain: 1.) Did the NKVD undertake such actions? 2.)What did the NKVD try to achieve, what was their motivation?

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:46

PS: people who lie, especially directly to one's face, are the most disgusting of all.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:47

Stiltzkin wrote:
16 Aug 2019 23:45
Pointing out your two direct lies is an insult? LOL.
Two questions remain: 1.) Did the NKVD undertake such actions? 2.)What did the NKVD try to achieve, what was their motivation?
Still no accounting for your two direct lies (which make any and all historical discussions with you futile)?

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:57

For those getting lost in this thread, a short chronology. The guy posted this:
Or the Russians (or some historians) would write : "Liberation". "Military aid". "Stabilization".
Which I corrected, since historically this is nonsense:
It obviously happened before the joint German-Soviet invasion of Poland, so your labels couldn't apply less.
It doesn't take a genius to see that those euphemisms were used for *external* actions (such as invasions), whereas the Polish operation was an internal one.

Did the dude correct himself? No, he doubled down:
Ethnic cleansing depends on the timeframe?
Even though I obviously wrote nothing about ethnic cleansing. So he tried deceptively putting a false implication into my mouth.

He got reminded that we were talking about the labels ("Liberation". "Military aid". "Stabilization").
Labels obviously do. We were talking about specific labels, remember?
Instead of apologizing for an attempted deception, he instead chose to lie directly:
The greatest irony here is, that one of the most avid contributors in the Holocaust section, the "bastion" and blogger against deniers, also emerges as a denier of Soviet atrocities, but that is not surprising.
And upon being called out, he directly lied a second time:
It does not look particularly trustworthy if a user devoted to the exposure of holocaust deniers is relativizing Soviet crimes
Even though obviously neither any such denial nor any such relativization has taken place.

Usually I observe such a pathological behavior in Holocaust deniers.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Stiltzkin » 16 Aug 2019 23:59

It doesn't take a genius to see that those euphemisms were used for *external* actions (such as invasions), whereas the Polish operation was an internal one.
https://www.definitions.net/definition/democide
nstead of apologizing for an attempted deception, he instead chose to lie directly:
The only insult here, was you accusing others of being deniers, which also has nothing to do with the topic and is a direct attack.
Last edited by Stiltzkin on 17 Aug 2019 00:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by Sergey Romanov » 16 Aug 2019 23:59

^^spam

PS: that's all one can do when one's lies got exposed and one cannot respond. But very nice of you to admit that when you lied about me being a denier of something or other, you meant it as an insult (by your own standards), for which you should be... moderated (again, acc. to your standards).

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by David Thompson » 17 Aug 2019 01:19

Let's drop the personal comments.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by history1 » 17 Aug 2019 16:14

wm wrote:
12 Aug 2019 21:58
[...]
In order to speed up the process, the NKVD personnel reviewed local telephone books and arrested persons with Polish-sounding names.[/i]
Lots of Poles from the German minority also had Polish sounding names. A Polish last name is not the same as being an ethnic Pole.
But I´m well aware that the IPN and Polish PiS goverment use every possibility to glorify Poles. One need to take only a look on social media where foreigners explain the POLISH truth of the WWII and the sufferng of Poles while the evil Jews did hand over their own folk and where never threated with death (SIC!), contrary to Poles, the only country where helping Jews was forbidden and punished with a death sentence. The latter is of course incorrect, lots of countries under Nazi dictatorship were threatened with the same fate.

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Re: Poles Murdered in USSR Pre-WWII

Post by gebhk » 17 Aug 2019 21:14

Lots of Poles from the German minority also had Polish sounding names. A Polish last name is not the same as being an ethnic Pole
Yes, I think we all know that. As, indeed, almost certainly did the perpetrators of these murders. However they had quotas to fulfil. What your personal opinion of IPN adds to this topic I fail to see.

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