Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

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ryu289
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Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by ryu289 » 22 Aug 2019 07:35

This article claims that homosexuals weren't victims of the Holocaust: https://donotlink.it/vKKl4
However the data might be outdated. Is there any way to check?

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 22 Aug 2019 14:10

I'm not going to bother reading your links because they are just plain wrong, if Homosexuals weren't persecuted then why was there a Pink Triangle ?
Alan

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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by SloveneLiberal » 22 Aug 2019 14:39

Well ryu289 the term Holocaust means genocide of Jews not the homosexuals. Your link is talking also about Dachau. In the book about the Dachau concentration camp published in 2005 i found an information that at least 600 homosexuals were in this concentration camp. They were harassed a lot by SS guards and even some kind of ''healing'' experiments were made on some of them. There are documents for more than 100 which died in Dachau. If homosexuals were at the same time Jews they were of course victims of Holocaust. For example Leopold Obermayer who was a homosexual and Jew was sent from Dachau to more hard labour camp Mauthausen for ''extermination through work''.

The Dachau concentration camp, 1933-1945, published in 2005 by Comite International de Dachau, page 77

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by Sergey Romanov » 23 Aug 2019 07:53

Quite clearly some of the Jews who died in the Holocaust were homosexual, so of course (Jewish) homosexuals were victims of the Holocaust.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by Sergey Romanov » 23 Aug 2019 07:56

Also, you posted a link to the website of the dumb neo-Nazi Holocaust denier Carlos Porter.

ryu289
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by ryu289 » 31 Aug 2019 05:53

SloveneLiberal wrote:
22 Aug 2019 14:39
Well ryu289 the term Holocaust means genocide of Jews not the homosexuals. Your link is talking also about Dachau. In the book about the Dachau concentration camp published in 2005 i found an information that at least 600 homosexuals were in this concentration camp. They were harassed a lot by SS guards and even some kind of ''healing'' experiments were made on some of them. There are documents for more than 100 which died in Dachau. If homosexuals were at the same time Jews they were of course victims of Holocaust. For example Leopold Obermayer who was a homosexual and Jew was sent from Dachau to more hard labour camp Mauthausen for ''extermination through work''.

The Dachau concentration camp, 1933-1945, published in 2005 by Comite International de Dachau, page 77
I see, so many deaths weren't labeled as homosexual?

SloveneLiberal
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by SloveneLiberal » 31 Aug 2019 14:09

As my source is saying you could say so yes. Because individuals which were Jews and gays at the same time were picked out of other gay prisoners and then killed in Holocaust because of their Jewish origin.

When US soldiers liberated Dachau 143 gay prisoners were registered plus 103 death certificates were found. What happened to others? I do not have enough information to say exactly! Police actions aimed at gays were going on already before war. In 1934 for example one such operation was carried on in Bavaria where Dachau was already established. Yet in this first years prisoners were mostly Germans and many were also released after some time. Those who were released had to sign a statement to remain silent and had to report daily to the police where they lived. It is known also that homosexuals were sometimes castrated by Nazi doctors and if they agreed with this their punishement was lower. Yet i do not know if this was going on in Dachau.

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wm
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by wm » 31 Aug 2019 22:31

The usual hierarchy in KLs were (from the bottom): Jews, Russians, Poles, Germans.
As most of the homosexuals were Germans they were at the top of the hierarchy. Of course, KLs weren't fun for (almost) nobody. But as homosexuality massively emerged among the prisoners themselves, and the conditions in KLs improved around 1942 it wasn't regarded as something especially bad (although it depended on the ruling Kommandant).

In Gross-Rossen homosexuals openly wear bras and garters, a homosexual rape gang preyed on prisoners there.
Homosexualism was (almost) openly practiced in Aushwitz, similarly in Mauthausen and Gusen. There were many homosexuals among the privileged prisoners camp functionaries, they weren't usually identified by the triangles because were arrested for different, political or criminal offenses.
Prostitution was practiced by young and attractive prisoners, and some of them emerged from the camps wealthy.

Of course, KLs weren't fun for (almost) nobody but the main victims were Jews, and (in the first years) Russians and Poles, not homosexuals.

btw Dachau was the one of the best KLs to spend the war, the only better place was no KL at all.

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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by SloveneLiberal » 01 Sep 2019 07:42

WM "one of the best KLs to spend the war" does not sound good. 41.500 prisoners died in Dachau.

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wm
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Re: Homosexuals during the Holocaust.

Post by wm » 01 Sep 2019 09:30

It means 80 percent of them survived.

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