Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

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snpol
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Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by snpol » 25 Dec 2019 16:09

https://www.timesofisrael.com/russias-p ... th-hitler/
Speaking to military top brass and using bad language at one point, Putin said that Poland was in cahoots with Hitler during World War II.
“Essentially they colluded with Hitler. This is clear from documents, archival documents,” Putin said in an emotional end-of-year speech at the defense ministry.
Resorting to bad language, Putin said a war-time Polish ambassador allegedly promised to put up a statue of Hitler in Warsaw for his pledges to send Jews to Africa.
“A bastard, an anti-Semitic pig, you cannot put it any other way,” Putin said, referring to what he said were the diaries of the Polish ambassador in Germany, apparently in reference to Józef Lipski, who served as ambassador in Berlin from 1934 to 1939.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by Sergey Romanov » 27 Dec 2019 01:05

So, why no comment on the veracity? It's not like Putin is a credible source.

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by snpol » 27 Dec 2019 10:50

Sergey Romanov wrote:
27 Dec 2019 01:05
So, why no comment on the veracity? It's not like Putin is a credible source.
It is official comment made by Polish government
https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statem ... federation
There is no one word about alleged anti-Semitism of Polish ambassador to Berlin in interwar period
Qui tacet - consentire videtur.
There are (I'm sure) archival documents. There is a book "Small Nations in Times of Crisis and Confrontation" By Yohanan Cohen.
On page 70 we see description of the story and also comments made by then Polish ambassador in the USA.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=Z4nKtN ... nt&f=false

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wm
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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by wm » 06 Jan 2020 22:45

Fake history, Lipski stopped a long and boring Hitler's monologue on various subjects with that joke.

Hitler said he was going to help Poland to solve her Jewish problem - referring to the Haavara Agreement between the Nazis and Jewish groups (and agreement that allowed about 60,000 German Jews to settle in Palestine with their wealth mostly intact and later credited as one of the most important contribution to the creation of Israel) and Lipski said he deserved a monument for that.

In the official report, Lipski didn't mention that but added the information in his own handwriting thinking it was funny.

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by snpol » 29 Mar 2020 14:27

wm wrote:
06 Jan 2020 22:45
Fake history, Lipski stopped a long and boring Hitler's monologue on various subjects with that joke.

Hitler said he was going to help Poland to solve her Jewish problem - referring to the Haavara Agreement between the Nazis and Jewish groups (and agreement that allowed about 60,000 German Jews to settle in Palestine with their wealth mostly intact and later credited as one of the most important contribution to the creation of Israel) and Lipski said he deserved a monument for that.

In the official report, Lipski didn't mention that but added the information in his own handwriting thinking it was funny.
https://www.jta.org/1941/02/23/archive/ ... ki-reveals
http://pdfs.jta.org/1941/1941-02-23_064 ... 1585486316
HITLER OFFERED POLAND COLONY FOR JEWS, LIPSKI REVEALS
LONDON, Feb. 21. [1941] (JTA) -- Josef Lipski, former Polish Ambassador to Berlin, revealed for the first time today that colonies large enough to "settle the whole Jewish problem" had been offered to Poland by Reichsfuehrer Adolf Hitler at the time when he tried to secure Warsaw's cooperation in plans for German hegemony in Europe. Lipski is now serving as a private in the Polish army in Britain.
So if it was only about German Jews then why Hitler ever did make any propositions to Poland? Apparently by "Jewish problem" Lipski meant namely Polish Jews.

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by michael mills » 31 Mar 2020 05:28

There is no reason to believe that Ambassador Lipski was joking when told Hitler that if he, Hitler, could solve the Jewish problem in Poland, the Polish people in gratitude would erect a beautiful monument to him in Warsaw. He included that statement in his official report to Foreign Minister Beck on his meeting with Hitler on 20 September 1918, the purpose of which was to discuss cooperation between Germany and Poland in takin territory from Czechoslovakia.

The idea that it was a joke by Lipski is simply an attempt to explain away a highly embarrassing element in an official Polish document. When Jedrejewicz published Lipski's report to Beck in his book "Diplomat in Berlin", he obviously did not think that Lipski was joking, since he followed the report with a two-page comment seeking to justify what Lipski had said, on the basis that the Polish Government only wanted to induce the Jews of Poland to emigrate, not to kill them. That attempt at justification ignores the fact that in 1938, emigration of the Jews was also Hitler's own policy.

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by wm » 10 May 2020 20:48

The idea that return to Palestine, the dream of all Jews from the time of the the Bar Kokhba revolt is anti-Semitic is absurd. There was nothing to be ashamed in that joke, unless we employ modern woke, politically correct sensitivities.
Hitler didn't offer to kill all Polish Jews, he mentioned a possibility of financing their emigration to Palestine. For the simple reason he was doing it at the time, and since the beginning of the thirties.

At the time of the meeting nor the Poles, nor Hitler wanted to kill their Jews. Instead Hitler cooperated with Jewish groups in colonization of Palestine. As result about 60,000 highly educated and highly skilled German Jews ended up there, with their wealth largely intact. Later he planned to finance emigration of all German Jews.

It should be noted majority of those people wouldn't ever emigrate to Palestine on their own accord. Everyday hardships of an undeveloped country, Arab bullets and bombs, poverty guaranteed it. Well, for the same reasons even the "post-war" Jews rather chose the US, Canada, Australia than Palestine.

Actually the idea that Hitler was a "father" of modern Israel could be quite successfully defended. Without those Jews and their wealth Israel could have never happened.

So we have a successful "colonizer" of Palestine, boasting of his achievements and a bored diplomat and his "whatever you say Mr. Hitler."

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by wm » 10 May 2020 21:00

snpol wrote:
29 Mar 2020 14:27
So if it was only about German Jews then why Hitler ever did make any propositions to Poland? Apparently by "Jewish problem" Lipski meant namely Polish Jews.
Hitler never proposed that.
From other long deliberations of the Chancellor the following results were clear:
...
a ) that he does not intend to go beyond the Sudetenland territory; naturally with armed force he would go deeper, especially since, in my opinion, he would then be under pressure from the military elements who for strategic reasons push toward the subjugation of the whole of ethnographic Czechoslovakia to Germany;
b) that besides a certain line of German interests we have a totally free hand;
c) that he sees great difficulties in reaching a Rumanian-Hungarian agreement (I think the Chancellor is under Horthy's influence, as I reported to you verbally) ;
d) that the cost of the Sudetenland operation, including fortifications and armaments, adds up to the sum of 18 billion RM;
e ) that upon settlement of the Sudetenland question he would present the problem of colonies;
f ) that he has in mind an idea for settling the Jewish problem by way of emigration to the colonies in accordance with an understanding with Poland, Hungary, and possibly also Rumania
Deliberations, "having in mind", daydreaming aren't proposals. The meeting was called for other reasons and Hitler polluted it with his unwelcomed deliberations.

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by michael mills » 11 May 2020 04:09

The other reasons were to discuss Polish participation in the dissolution of Czechoslovakia.

With regard to point (f), you have omitted Lipski's promise to Hitler that if he could solve the Jewish problem in Poland, the Polish people in gratitude would erect a beautiful monument to him in Warsaw. That promise is included in the full text of Lipski's report on the meeting of 20 September 1938, published by Jedrzejewicz in the book "Diplomat in Berlin".

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Re: Alleged Anti-Semitic views of Polish pre-war ambassador in Germany

Post by wm » 11 May 2020 18:18

Although he didn't promise anything.
Small talk in informal circumstancing isn't an agreement to do anything.

As I've said Hitler could be regarded as a stepfather of modern Israel.
That was not enough to erect him a monument in Tel-Aviv in 1938, but if he had been able to achieve transfer of East European Jewish population to Palestine (and prevent the Holocaust) he would fully deserve one.
Knowing the fanatical pro-German stance of many Germany Jews that would be quite likely.

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