Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

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michael mills
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#16

Post by michael mills » 30 Jun 2020, 16:39

Thanks for this information. It is good to see that my memory has not completely failed me, despite my advanced years, and that it was indeed in the Wiener Library Bulletin that I read Michael Tregenza's article about the Belzec death camp so many years ago.

As for his book about the T-4 euthanasia program, I found this reference:

https://www.bookdepository.com/Aktion-T ... 2702141847

Also this reference suggesting that the author of this book is the same person who wrote the article in the Wiener Library Bulletin about Belzec.

https://www.amazon.com/Aktion-T4-lexter ... 2702141846

Finally, this reference states that the book was translated from the English-language original:

https://www.nli.org.il/en/books/NNL_ALEPH003579689/NLI

Here is a link to an interesting site, a description of a seminar held in 2004 in which Michael Tregenza participated, speaking about his research into the life of Christian Wirth:

https://www.szasz.com/buxton.pdf

michael mills
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#17

Post by michael mills » 01 Jul 2020, 04:27

Link to an interview with Kurt Franz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWb7Wvvks_o


steve248
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#18

Post by steve248 » 06 Jul 2020, 15:52

I had forgotten the T4 book probably because it is only available in French; and published almost 10 years ago. Mike did write it in English and it was translated. But no English edition.

michael mills
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#19

Post by michael mills » 08 Jul 2020, 02:47

Thanks for that information.

wolfguy
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#20

Post by wolfguy » 11 Jul 2020, 16:00

Hi Steve and Michael

An interesting quote to share:

From "Hitler's Man In the East: Odilo Globocnik" by Joseph Poprzeczny, pg. 400-401, N. 6:

"Michael Tregenza (Lublin) to Professor Maurice Williams (Kelowna, British Columbia)- 27 January 1997; Letter in the author's possession."
"In his reply to Williams's comment, in which Williams claimed Globocnik may well have been a 'front man' for both Oswald Pohl and Christian Wirth, Tregenza wrote: 'Regarding your comment about Globocnik being a 'front man' while Pohl and Wirth had the real power- I couldn't agree more. It's still not generally known how close Wirth was to Himmler...."

I just thought that was an interesting quote related to the topic of Wirth and Tregenza's research and viewpoint of him.
Any comments, thoughts, opinions etc. ?

Wolfguy

stryder
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#21

Post by stryder » 14 Jul 2020, 15:54

wolfguy wrote:
11 Jul 2020, 16:00
Hi Steve and Michael

An interesting quote to share:

From "Hitler's Man In the East: Odilo Globocnik" by Joseph Poprzeczny, pg. 400-401, N. 6:

"Michael Tregenza (Lublin) to Professor Maurice Williams (Kelowna, British Columbia)- 27 January 1997; Letter in the author's possession."
"In his reply to Williams's comment, in which Williams claimed Globocnik may well have been a 'front man' for both Oswald Pohl and Christian Wirth, Tregenza wrote: 'Regarding your comment about Globocnik being a 'front man' while Pohl and Wirth had the real power- I couldn't agree more. It's still not generally known how close Wirth was to Himmler...."

I just thought that was an interesting quote related to the topic of Wirth and Tregenza's research and viewpoint of him.
Any comments, thoughts, opinions etc. ?

Wolfguy
The idea that Globus was a "front man", and that Wirth had more real authority, I think is a bit of a mischaracterization of their relationship. After all, Wirth was only a Sturmbannführer and Globus was made a Gruppenführer. Additionally, the authority to handle AR loot was taken away from Wirth early on, after he "inappropriately" delivered it to the Reichsbank. Globus even had the authority to admonish Wirth for being too heavy handed with the local population while the they were stationed in Trieste. Even the nickname Globus shows that Himmler had affection for Globocnik, and saved his ass more than once from internal SS prosecution.

While I respect Tregenza, I have never seen anything specific written in regard to the relationship of Himmler and Wirth. Wirth came from the Chancellory and T4 under Brack and Blankenburg. Globocnik had already been in Lublin for nearly two years when Wirth arrived. The orders to carry out AR were given to Globocnik and not Wirth.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#22

Post by steve248 » 14 Jul 2020, 17:58

I agree with stryder in the above post. I am very puzzled by the assertion that Wirth had some kind of favourable position with Himmler. Wirth's name does not appear in the Himmler Dienstkalender 41/42 or 43/45.
No doubt Himmler knew Wirth in connection with the Einsatz Reinhardt but his visits were hardly enough to create anything more than an acquaintanceship.
Wirth may have come from the T4 operation but he was a career Kripo official. Heinrich Wied was an anti-corruption investigator like Konrad Morgan. Wied investigated SS corruption in Lublin and after the war, told his own interrogator:
During Dec 1943-April 1944, Heinz Wied investigated corruption among the SS in Lublin, including Aktion Reinhard personnel.
SS-Stubaf Wirth, pre-war Krim.Komm. at Kripo Leitstelle Stuttgart. In wartime, in charge of ‘Aktion Reinhard’, the wholesale extermination of Jews especially in the Lublin area, under auspices of ‘Gemeinernützige’ Stiftung für Anstaltspflege. In 1944 accompanied Globocnik to Trieste. Alleged to have committed atrocities there.
Ruthless, ambitious type.
(German spellings as per original)

Boby
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#23

Post by Boby » 15 Jul 2020, 14:54

Has any other "14-tägige Meldung Einsatz Reinhart" survived in british radio intercepts?

steve248
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#24

Post by steve248 » 15 Jul 2020, 16:57

There are no further "14 day reports by Einsatz Reinhart" among the radio intercepts in British archives.
There is just one further radio message from WVHA to KL Auschwitz on 22 Oct 1942 about wrist-watches and what we English call "fountain pens" - pens of the time with a small rubber bladder holding liquid ink- and other stuff from "Aktion Reinhardt" sent to Auschwitz for repairs.
I did write an article about the radio intercepts that have a bearing on Globocnik, Eichmann and Aktion Reinhardt operation that used 26 intercepts from 1940 evacuation of Poles from the Warthegau to Lublin Distrikt to uprising in Sobibor and Sobibor's new role in recovering armaments and Wirth buying a digger (for extracting bodies) from a Dutch company. Article in Bogdan Musial, "Aktion Reinhardt"... Fibre Verlag, 2004. probably still available via abebooks and zvab.

michael mills
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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#25

Post by michael mills » 17 Jul 2020, 07:42

The reason for the lack of any further intercepted 14-day reports on Einsatz Reinhardt may be because they were not a regular occurrence, and the one intercepted at the end of 1942 was the only one. That report was sent to Eichmann's office because Himmler's statistician, Richard Korherr, was stationed there, for the purpose of collecting statistics on the progress of the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe". The statistics contained in that report were included in Korherr's report to Himmler.

In his post-war interviews with Sassen, Eichmann related how Korherr was posted to his office as a base from where he sent out large numbers of messages to German authorities all over occupied Europe, ordering them to provide statistics on their operations against Jews in their areas of responsibility. The year-end report sent from Globocnik's office in Lublin to Eichmann's office in Berlin was almost certainly in response to the request from Korherr.

There is no reason why Eichmann's office would have received regular reports from Globocnik on the operations of Einsatz Reinhardt in the General Government, since Eichmann did not have any command over those operations. His area of authority was limited to the organisation of deportations of Jews from Germany and Western and Central Europe, and to a much lesser extent of deportations of other ethnic groups such as Slovenes.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#26

Post by steve248 » 17 Jul 2020, 08:02

I think you are incorrect Michael. As it was a 14 day report it naturally follows that every 14 days a report was made. Like all the intercepted German radio messages, it was the luck of the draw what they said when intercepted. The Lublin radio transmission centre was sending numerous messages every day for five years (1939-1944) but possibly 150 were intercepted.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#27

Post by michael mills » 19 Jul 2020, 07:30

The message sent from Globocnik's office in Lublin to Eichmann's office in Berlin was most probably in answer to a request from Korherr, who was stationed in Eichmann's office for the purpose of collecting statistics. We have Eichmann's account that Korherr sent out such requests for statistical information. We know it was the answer to Korherr's request, since the total figure for the number of Jews sent to the Globocnik camps as at the end of 1942 was included in Korherr's report to Himmler.

No doubt each of the extermination camps under Globocnik's command sent regular reports to the Einsatzstab Reinhardt in Lublin, but it is not certain that regular consolidated reports were sent out from the Einsatzstab, and if so where they were sent. Globocnik worked directly to Himmler, not to Eichmann, so there was normally no need for him to send regular reports to Eichmann's office. Furthermore, the reason why Himmler ordered Korherr to gather statistics on the progress of the "Final Solution" and to prepare a consolidated report, was because he was not satisfied with the information he was receiving.

No doubt the Lublin radio transmission centre was sending out numerous messages every day, but not all of them would have concerned Einsatz Reinhardt, and there is no way of knowing how many of those messages were addressed to Eichmann's office.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#28

Post by steve248 » 19 Jul 2020, 12:34

Michael, you are speculating without checking. Korherr was not tasked with the statistical work on the Final Solution until Himmler's order of 18 Jan 1943 - see Korherr to Rudolf Brandt (Himmler's staff) on 23 March 1943:
"Gemaß Befehl des Reichsführers - Geheim - vom 18.1.1943, Tgb. 32/2/43 g und den entsprechenden Befehlen des Reichsführers an das RSHA habe ich ....".
Korherr cannot have requested the "Hoefle Telegram" because he had not yet been tasked with this statistical work.
Korherr received Himmler's orders after Eichmann had reported to Himmler on 15 Dec 1942 in such a slipshod manner on the total numbers. Unfortunately Eichmann's report is lost so we do not know exactly what enraged Himmler.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#29

Post by michael mills » 20 Jul 2020, 01:34

Thanks for that correction.

I see that the Hoefle Telegram was transmitted on 11 January 1943, a week before Himmler's order to Korherr to prepare a statistical report, but well after Eichmann's report to Himmler, which as you say caused the latter to give the assignment to Korherr. At the time Eichmann reported to Himmler on 15 December, he cannot have had the figures provided in the telegram, which may have been why his report was deficient. Could it be that Eichmann himself requested Globocnik's office to send accurate figures to him, after having been reprimanded by Himmler for his slipshod report?

Presumably the Hoefle Telgram was the source for the figure quoted in the Korherr Report for the total number of Jews subjected to Sonderbehandlung in the camps in the General Government, since the two figures are exactly the same.

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Re: Michael Tregenza Article on Christian Wirth

#30

Post by steve248 » 20 Jul 2020, 11:32

Michael, your para 2 is correct and the basic argument in the article I jointly wrote on the "Hoefle Telegram".

Re your first para, I don't think Eichmann reported in person to Himmler on 15 Dec 1942, that is the day of Eichmann's missing report. In my post I did say "reported" but in the sense of a written report to him. On that day, 15 Dec 1942, Himmler was at Friedrichsruh and unlikely Eichmann came in person. No doubt when Himmler was absent from Berlin, the RSHA courier service brought him his paper mail on a daily basis.

Checking Himmler's Dienstkalender 41/42 (there is no mention of Eichmann's report or Eichmann meeting Himmler in Dec 1942) and the new DK 43/45 where, p. 91 (entry for 15 Jan 1943), the editors state: "In einem Telefongespräch mit Gestapochef Müller [at 5 p.m./1700 hrs] besprach Himmler die notwendige Überarbeitung des von Adolf Eichmann am 15.Dez. 1942 vorgelegten 'Tätigkeits- und Lageberichts 1942 über die Endlösung der Judenfrage'. Dieser hatte aufgrund von Ungenauigkeiten Himmlers Missfallen erregt. Anstelle des RSHA sollte nun der Oberste SS Statisker, Richard Korherrr, einen Bericht 'Endlösung der Judenfrage' anfertigen, in dem die Zahl der bisher ermordeten Juden zu ermitteln war". The editors source for the above text is Saul Friedländer, "The Years of Extermination", pp 480-482 (the editors quote the German version of this work, but I have only the American edition). But you check his sources.

My wife occasionally tells me to stop arguing black is white. Michael you are trying to argue black is white. When any business management, such as SSPF Lublin in this case, reports a 14 day cycle and a end-of-year total you can bet your last Australian dollar that a similar Hoefle Telegram had been sent every previous 14 day cycle, back to 15 March 1942 when Belzec opened for business. (The date comes from Dieter Pohl, "NS Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1941-1944, p. 205 - I just happen to be checking some other stuff in it at the moment.)

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