What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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wildboar
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RE-Source

#31

Post by wildboar » 26 Jun 2003, 20:50

David Thompson wrote:wildboar -- Please give references or sources for your information.
David,
the source are the literature of dissident communist intellectuals of india.(most of work is in indian language's and not available easily)

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witness
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#32

Post by witness » 26 Jun 2003, 20:53

This is not me who brings the Jew into this. This is one of the Revisionist
accusations.
As for the rest -
Is this phrase
why the governments are sitting over all the documents
supposed to be taken as an evidence of your assertion ?


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wildboar
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re-document

#33

Post by wildboar » 26 Jun 2003, 20:57

witness wrote:This is not me who brings the Jew into this. This is one of the Revisionist
accusations.
As for the rest -
Is this phrase
why the governments are sitting over all the documents
supposed to be taken as an evidence of your assertion ?
the government means govt of india which is sitting on vast sum of intelligence documents which can help us solve many riddles of war but has kept it hidden for political reasons

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witness
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#34

Post by witness » 26 Jun 2003, 20:59

So may I have a suggestion then ?
Maybe after the " govt of india which is sitting on vast sum of intelligence "
releases such an evidence we can discuss your allegetion which is so far based on nothing but wishful thinking ?

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Roberto
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Re: RE-Source

#35

Post by Roberto » 26 Jun 2003, 21:02

wildboar wrote:
David Thompson wrote:wildboar -- Please give references or sources for your information.
David,
the source are the literature of dissident communist intellectuals of india.(most of work is in indian language's and not available easily)
It can't be that hard, if our good wildboar is familiar with this literature, as he seems to be.

Considering that you have for at least two years been proclaiming fantastic assertions about the involvement of Mr. Beria and his NKVD in evil doings that no historian so far found them to be connected to, and that the question about evidence has inevitably followed every one of your assertions, why hasn't it ever occurred to you to transcribe or translate some of said "literature of dissident communist intellectuals of india" in support of your assertions?

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#36

Post by David Thompson » 26 Jun 2003, 21:12

wildboar -- In response to my question asking you for references or sources for your assertion, you answered: "the source are the literature of dissident communist intellectuals of india.(most of work is in indian language's and not available easily)."

Some one had to have access to this literature -- either you or a secondary source -- in order to use the material at all.

Please give the citations, no matter how obscure or secondary.

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Deterance
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#37

Post by Deterance » 27 Jun 2003, 06:31

I regards to small scale allied war crimes......

Charles Whiting in Siegfried, The Nazis last Stand....

cites a Cpt. MacDonald, 2nd infantry stated that a German POW was shot by men in his unit with out his knowledge.

Donald Burgett, 101 Airborne combat infantry veteran in Seven Roads to Hell cites an example of another trooper killing a prisoner he (Burgett) took in Bastogne area. Burgett then assaulted the perpetrator.

Also make reference to men of glider regiment taking "no German prisoners" in ambush after German (SS ?) soldiers single out and kill wounded US paratroopers in captured US hospital

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#38

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 27 Jun 2003, 20:34

In regards to Dresden –Soviet general staff asked allies if the can disable railway junction in the city, which facilitated the movements of German reserves. It most definitely did not ask for leveling the entire Dresden – that was an allied improvisation. So no conspiracies no NKVD agents – besides Dresden ride while most notorious, is nothing extraordinary –and in general in total agreement allied airpower power modus operandi – Tokyo, Hiroshima, Operation Linebacker and Yugoslavia for that matter.

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Deterance
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#39

Post by Deterance » 28 Jun 2003, 05:04

oleg wrote:besides Dresden ride while most notorious, is nothing extraordinary –and in general in total agreement allied airpower power modus operandi – Tokyo, Hiroshima, Operation Linebacker and Yugoslavia for that matter.

There is a world of difference between Tokyo, Hiroshina and Serbia!

Look at footage of Tokyo and Hishoshima..... then go to Belgrade today. The comparison is not even close....not even the Serbs propaganda makes such a comparison.

Grozny is a far more accurate comparison to Tokyo and Hiroshima.

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#40

Post by David Thompson » 28 Jun 2003, 21:56

The posts on the topic of Nazi terror bombing now have a thread of their own.

"Terror Bombing -- The Nazis Started It" at:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25592

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#41

Post by Attila the Hunking » 28 Jun 2003, 22:14

A quote from alsaco:
People in Dresden did say, did rumor, that because some aunt or girlfriend of Churchill was buried there, there was no risk of bombing. But nethertheless, Dresden was a railway knot between north, Prague, Nüremberg, München, Wien, Hungary, in times when transfering troops was by train, and from south to north.
Actually, it was rumored that a niece of Churchill (or at least a relative of jim) was living here. Another was, that the citey beeing the only german major city still undestroyed prior to 13th february '45 intented to serve as the seat of a military goverment/administration.

It is important to me, to point out that the citys capabilitiy to handle traffic was only slightly affected by its destruction.
In fact there was (and still is) a large railway hub southwest of the city centre. However, this hub was not included in the area targeted by
Bomber Command and thus not damaged at all! The main railwaystation was, but received comparatively minor damage. 14 days later the first trains could pass the railwaystation again. The main bombload went down on the old center of the city. From the way the bomning was planned and conducted, one can only draw the conclusion that it were the people of the city itself which were targeted. Btw, Dresden was virtually undefended.
In fact the bombing of Dresden was a normal part of the campaign.
A pointless campaign of killing civillians for the sake of it.
The number of deaths resulted from the fact that Gauleiters in Schlesien and Poland did send on the roads women nd childrens to late, and without any planning or organisation.
I'd rather say these refugees fled on their own initiative, as the administration in east germany was already dissolving.

Do you really tink a warning should be given before a town is bombed ?.
Notification to the FLAK of time and number of bombs ?;

And, probably, also from the fact that the Saxon authorities were more concerned by plundering the region yhen by protecting it. See Viktor Klemperer memoirs.
What do you mean by "plundering the region" ?
You're right when claiming that Saxon authorities (especially Mutschmann) worried only about themselves and did not provide sufficient shelters for the people.

regards

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#42

Post by Penn44 » 28 Jun 2003, 22:21

KalaVelka wrote:ok, so there wasnt any allied crimes? ANY? ok...

or then it is true that winners write history and thats why allied crimes are not popular.
Not quite true, The US Army punished war crimes committed by American soldiers. For example, the US Army persecuted and convcted two American soldiers, a captain and a sergeant of killing 30-35 German POWs in Sicily, 1943.

The records of 5th Inf Div (US) of March or April 1945 shows that division having courts martialed an American soldier for raping German civilian. The division's medical unit also provided medical care to that woman.

These are only two examples, there are undoubtedly more, but how much more, I can't say.

Of course, whether a soldier is punished is up to that soldier's chain-of-command, and much crimes goes unpunished or "under-punished."

I agree, Allied war crimes is an under-researched subject, but the records of the American Army are available and open if there is a researcher who has the time and money to conduct the research. Unfortunately, the punishment records are not indexed by type crime so you have all those convicted of war crimes lumped in with those of other offenses (disobedience, theft, etc.).

Within the last few years, one or more Jewish organizations have raised the issue of the American Army's looting and dispersement of stolen Jewish property. These organizations have asked for compensation for this stolen property. Reportedly, after the war, one could find items formerly belonging to Jews in American PXs in Germany, items like wristwatches, etc.

Of a related interest, is the magnitude of the involvement of US military personnel in Black Market activities in Europe. I read a 1944 NY Times article once where the US Army lost a fuel truck convey that was hijacked by American "bandits."

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#43

Post by David Thompson » 28 Jun 2003, 22:42

There's no shortage of information on the involvement of individual members of the allied armed forces in "black market" activities, but since that isn't a war crime, let's stay on topic.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#44

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 29 Jun 2003, 00:23

Deterance wrote:
oleg wrote:besides Dresden ride while most notorious, is nothing extraordinary –and in general in total agreement allied airpower power modus operandi – Tokyo, Hiroshima, Operation Linebacker and Yugoslavia for that matter.

There is a world of difference between Tokyo, Hiroshina and Serbia!

Look at footage of Tokyo and Hishoshima..... then go to Belgrade today. The comparison is not even close....not even the Serbs propaganda makes such a comparison.

Grozny is a far more accurate comparison to Tokyo and Hiroshima.
Grozniy is hardly an equal opportunity memebe here since almost no airpower were used, and most of the distruction occured during urban combat. Belgarde however - is. Since the bombing was basiclaly aimed at its infrastructure - which is to say aimed at making civil population lives as uncomfartable as possible - basically the same idea as in Dresden case but with better tools.

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Marcus
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#45

Post by Marcus » 29 Jun 2003, 00:37

This is not the place to discuss post-ww2 history so get back on topic.

/Marcus

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