Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

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G. Trifkovic
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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#181

Post by G. Trifkovic » 05 Mar 2011, 18:19

Larry D. wrote:Thank you for that, David. I am 95% sure that is the war crime I was referring to as it is the main one that occurred in that part of the former Yugoslavia that was occupied by the Hungarians. Grassy must have been the senior Hungarian officer on the scene and may have ordered the massacre on his own authority. If he was indeed executed in some gruesome fashion, then the impalation story may be true since that form of execution has an unfortunate history in that area dating back to the Ottoman conquest in the early 1500's. There is testimony in Nürnberg Case 7 (Southeast Case) of Chetniks and Partisans occasionally using that method on particularly hated enemies, so I would not rule it out in the matter of Grassy or whoever the general was.

L.
My opinion is that is virtually impossible to establish the truth about that particular execution. If it indeed happened in the gruesome style the Hungarians say, I sincerely doubt there are materials proofs for the allegation, like a photo or something similar. As for the eyewitness reports, we again have none. Hungarian officers were certainly not present and I doubt an ex-Yugoslav official will come out and say "Yes, we did impale him." Nor will the "new historians" from Serbia, keen on proving the depraved nature of communist regime, make such a statement-after all, Grassy was notorious for letting his troops loose on the Serbs.

Such allegations are notoriously hard to prove, whether it be invaders bayoneting babies or guerrillas crucifying their captives. Unfortunately for us researchers, few such episodes are documented by the perpetrating side; I immediately think of the beheading of two partisans by "Karstjägers", for which we have both authentic photos and a report openly stating the way in which the executions were carried out. As rare are also eyewitness accounts, like Djilas remembering he tacitly approved the execution of an Ustasha by decapitation, or Jovan Kapicic admitting he and his comrades doused dead Italians in Montenegro with gasoline and set them on fire for no other reason than "we haven't had enough".

Cheers,

Gaius

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#182

Post by ansata1976 » 05 Mar 2011, 19:09

Researcher wrote:For ansata1976

Dehlefsen, Bock and Schulz worked in Lindenburg Hospital. I do not know where this is or why they were tried in Belgrade. DOB Dehlefsen 17.08.1917 Bock 18.06.1917 Schulz 29.12.1908.

Bock and Schulz executed by shooting - I do not know if Dehlefsen was executed.
Thank you Researcher but i think you mean

"Doctor at the Lüneburg hospital". Lindenburg Hospital is in Cologne.


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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#183

Post by Larry D. » 05 Mar 2011, 19:47

Hi Gaius,

Thanks for your well-considered comments, with which I agree. The fog of war is infamous for generating millions of stories that get passed along, some true, some pure fiction, that finally after several generations can no longer be verified one way or the other. I guess the Grassy tale is one of those for which we will never know the answer. But it will always puzzle me as to why the Hungarian officers were so adamant that the story was true. The Nürnberg Case VII transcript is also full of testimony concerning particularly barbaric Serb atrocities against the Volksdeutsch in the Vojvodina and Srem area in fall 1944 during the evacuations, and if those eyewitness stories are to be believed, then the Grassy tale seems a little more plausible.

Larry

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#184

Post by JakeV » 22 Mar 2011, 20:22

Hello Larry,

I am 100% sure the general you're talking about is not Grassy, but Ferenc Szombathelyi. As far as I know he is the only Hungarian general about whom it is rumored that was executed by impalement. I can't say if it's true or not, as photographic evidence doesn't seem to exist, but I can say that some details of the story seem playsible. The Yugoslavs indeed used impalement during World War II in a few documented cases; Georg Stadtmüller reported at Nürnberg (what you've mentioned above) that some Germans were impaled after Yugoslavs liberated Belgrade. Also, from a relevant study I have learned that it is indeed possible for someone to live 2 days on the stake. But as Gaius wrote, we can't know for sure.

Also, Gentlemen, I have made an important discovery: I present you this link with photos of Rainer's - Kübler's trial in Ljubljana in July 1947.

Most photos depict Rainer, but there's one (http://gostje.kivi.si/total/p37/Rainer-Prozess-4.jpg) with Fleckner, Christl, Hößlin, Kübler, Glaser and Rainer.

So, apparently, photos of the trials do exist; Those come from Muzej novejše zgodovine in Ljubljana. Perhaps someone could find a lot more in there.

Best regards
Jake

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#185

Post by Larry D. » 22 Mar 2011, 20:41

Jake - many thanks for clarifying the impalement question. The more I look at Ferenc Szombathelyi's name the more familiar it looks and I now believe that to be the name used by the former Hungarian officers I spoke with 32-33 years ago. Thanks also for corroborating the use of impalement in the former Yugoslavia during the war. That form of punishment and eventual death is so barbaric and ghastly that present day readers do not believe it could have been used by human beings after the decline of the Ottoman Empire. The same holds for flaying. I do not know of any cases of that in wartime Yugoslavia, but there is a well-substantiated and witnessed account of the Afghan Taliban flaying a 13-year-old boy alive as recently as 1999 or 2000.

Larry

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#186

Post by David Thompson » 22 Mar 2011, 21:08

Thanks, JakeV. Here's what I have on the fellow:

Szombathelyi, Ferenc (1887-4.11.1946) [Vezérezredes (Hungarian Colonel General)] -- chief of staff Hungarian 3rd Mixed Brigade 1931-1933; aide-de-camp to Commander in Chief of the Hungarian Army 1933-1936; commandant Hungarian Ludovika Military Academy 1936-1938; deputy chief Hungarian General Staff 1938-1939; commander, Hungarian VIII Corps on the Eastern Front 15 Jan 1939-1 Aug 1941; commander, Hungarian Carpathian Group on the Eastern Front 1941; chief Hungarian General Staff 7 Sept 1941-19 Apr 1944{arrested and put on trial by a Hungarian court; convicted and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment (Andrew L. Simon, Annotated Memoirs of Admiral Miklos Horthy, Regent of Hungary); extradited to Yugoslavia; put on trial by the Voivodina Supreme Court of Yugoslavia for massacres at Novy Sad and Baka; convicted and sentenced to death by shooting 31 Oct 1946 (NYT 1 Nov 1946:16:3); executed at Novi Sad 4 Nov 1946 with Joszef Grassy (LT 5 Nov 1946:3e; Andrew L. Simon, Annotated Memoirs of Admiral Miklos Horthy, Regent of Hungary) or 5 Nov 1946 (History of the United Nations War Crimes Commission and the Development of the Laws of War p. 529, United Nations War Crimes Commission, London: HMSO, 1948). (Third Reich Factbook; Steen Ammentorp, "Generals of WWII: Hungarian Generals," http://www.generals.dk/Hungary.htm).}

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#187

Post by JakeV » 22 Mar 2011, 21:20

Very good . :) As you can see there is a major inconsistency concerning the post-war executions in Yugoslavia, and the trials as well. I believe it is worth mentioning that the Republic of Serbia did not allow investigators from the Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt to view the archives (transcripts?) of the Trials we are discussing here, at least as of 3-5 years before. It seems the archives will remain sealed and the reports classified for the time being. So I'm afraid we'll have to rely on the "Borba" extracts by Böhme and other sources that do not elaborate much on the subject. Nevertheless I'd like to see a complete study of the trials someday.

Another thing I want to clarify here: I have seen some times here that Generalmajor Gerhard Kühne (* 9. September 1899 in Obersteinbach bei Döbeln; † 22. Mai 1948 in Lager Zrenjanin) was tried in an unknown trial and executed. Truth is, he was neither tried nor "executed by firing squad"; Rather just shot from a guard (Wache), as the bio posted by ansata on p. 8 states.

Some details: I have both vols of Böhme's Zur Geschichte der deutcshen Kriegsgefangenen des Zweiten Weltkrieges. Die deutschen Kriegsgefangenen in Jugoslawien. Kühne's death was described at the vol. I/2, pages 218-219, an extract of the memoirs of fellow prisoner Generalmajor Gerhard Henke, "Der jugoslawische Abenteuer".

So, in the morning of 22 May 1948 Henke, Generalmajor Rudolf Geiger and Kühne, generals that had established close friendship during their captivity were shaving in the morning. A guard below their window saw that the men were leaning down the street to look in their mirrors. Fearing that they might attempt escape, he started yelling at them. Henke took his mirror from the window and put it against the wall. Kühne, who was short-sighted and could not put it far away, ignored the guard, who in response shot the general. The bullet hit him in the left eye and died almost instantly, while a doctor came only after 10 minutes. It is clear that Kühne's case does not belong to this post, so I thought it would be useful to point it out.

Jake

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#188

Post by Larry D. » 23 Mar 2011, 01:09

I would like to add a postscript to note that anyone planning an extended research or investigative effort into this subject should include the records of the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade and the U.S. Consulate in Zagreb for the 1945-50 period. There is a great deal of hard to find material there on Tito's treatment of Axis P/Ws and collaborators, the death marches, camps, trials, purges and mass summary executions carried out by special units of Communist youth, and many other topics. The American and British embassies in Belgrade were just about the sole Western recipients of information from people who wanted to speak out against the horror going on there. These records are in NARA WashDC, RG 80.

Larry

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#189

Post by ansata1976 » 07 Apr 2011, 21:18

I need more information about the trials of

SS-Hauptsturmführer Fritz Tausendfreund extradited 1947??? to Yugoslavia (February 1947 extradition request)

date of birth and death and place????????????

and

Polizeipräfekt Dr Franz Reit or Reith or Rajt
Trial 29.05 – 06.06.1947
Death sentence by shooting
date of birth and death and place????????????

and

Dr. Eugen Kusing Trial June 1947 in Zrenjanin death sentence and execution
date of birth and death and place????????????

and

Dr. Franz Schley death sentence and execution in Cilli
date of birth and death and place????????????

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#190

Post by ansata1976 » 19 May 2011, 01:32

Which of this men was sentenced in Yugoslavia???


SS-Hauptscharführer Walter Gielke
SS-Hauptscharführer Fritz Markl
SS-Untersturmführer Herbert Stössl 02.11.1891
Fritz Schönrock
SS-Untersturmführer Hermann Jung 10.02.1892 in Mittenhausleithen
SS-Sturmbannführer Fritz Glass
SS-Untersturmführer Herbert Krassnigg 15.11.1894 in Sankt Martin
Rudolf Kunesch 13.02.1909

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#191

Post by ansata1976 » 27 Jun 2011, 23:42

Friedrich von Franz
06.03.1886 in Prag
mayor of Klagenfurt
arrested 07.05.1945
executed July 1945

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#192

Post by trekker » 04 Jul 2011, 11:31

ansata1976 wrote:Which of this men was sentenced in Yugoslavia???
...
Rudolf Kunesch 13.02.1909
I hope you don't mind my asking you why you think Rudolf Kunesch could have been sentenced in Yugoslavia. Have you got any information about his war-time activities in Yugoslavia?

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#193

Post by JakeV » 02 Oct 2011, 09:28

Some very interesting photos from the Löhr et. al. trial in Belgrade were posted at viewtopic.php?p=1633807#p1633807 by Gaius / G. Trifkovic :D :D :D

Jake

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#194

Post by Heimatschuss » 11 Oct 2011, 15:18

Hello,
David Thompson wrote: (22) Trial of German officers at Belgrade (4th process), concluded 16 Feb 1947
Fortner, Johann (death by hanging)
Kuebler (Kübler), Josef (death by hanging)
Loehr (Löhr), Alexander (death by firing squad)
Lontschar, Adalbert (death by hanging)
Neidholdt, Fritz (death by hanging)
Schmidhuber, August (death by hanging)
Tribukait or Tribukayt, Guenther (death by hanging)
(Note from Octavianus -- "There was apparently another accusant, one Paul Gerchard, about whom I did not been able to find much, who was taken out from this trial and was trialed separately for his crimes committed in Kragujevac in 1942.")
according to http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/landmark/pdf/a-pv101.pdf the name of the last accused was actually Paul Gerhard. He was later acquitted in the Kragujevac trial and sent back to the US authorities in Austria. (pages 9- 10 of pdf-document, pages 473-474 of original document)

Best regards
Torsten

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

#195

Post by David Thompson » 11 Oct 2011, 16:23

Thanks for that information, Heimatschuss.

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