Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

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G. Trifkovic
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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by G. Trifkovic » 01 Mar 2012 08:16

Hi all,

I assume this is the letter in question:
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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by Johaaanan » 01 Mar 2012 10:38

Absolutely.
Is there a better example of what genuine Montenegrin dilligence and traditional Bosnian ( if I understod it correctly ) geniality can do when put together :lol: ?

Aa additional explanation for our viewers, about the technicall process of hostage taking and reprisal killings:
* It derived from a Hitler's instruction, further enforced by Keitel's instruction order, put in effect in Serbia by the Supreme Commander's direct order ( I take it this would be a wide known fact, not to name all the particular details about the documents ).
* It was formally put to effect on the field by an Announcement ( Ankündigung ) that had to be signed by the Feldkommandant, while the shootings were directly done by special groups ( Sonderorganisationen ), e.g. SS units, Feldgendarmerie, Gestapo, and some others of the kind. It was a way to generally protect genuine Werhmacht from doing 'not-a-soldier's-duties', also a very suitable duties division which enabled responsibilities to be unclearly shared, and eventually very comfortably used by the ones involved- practically, it was a system to shoot people whose resonsibilities for any actions haven't been confirmed, or who were clearly not related to the actions which were to be sanctioned.
* I take it this was a wide known fact too, but precisely in Bothmer's case- regarding the letter, it was widely argued what the exact purpose of it was. Even the Yugoslav Court agreed that it had shown the high soldier's etchical code of the author, but eventually, in reallity, it came to the fact that the Old Prussian type of view- system above all, prevailed- he had no problems signing an Announcement when it came to that. Therefore, it was concluded that his objection, etchicaly righteous, stopped at the point of clearing the formal process for it.

I felt these additional comments needed, mostly in regards to a broad argument there was about the protest letter, concerning issues from the translation accuracy, to the particular event it related to ( interpretations of it as a general and overall protest, although it was related to a specific event ), and especially concerning broad generalisations of the subject, without consideration of the following actions of the author.

To return the favour, zemljak, if you still haven't catched it: dr Đorđe N. Lopičić - Nemački ratni zločini 1941-1945 (Muzej žrtava genocida, 2009), excellent reading for this thread, clears a lot of issues. Also, one of the 64 verdicts listed there is Bothmer's.

Respect,
Ivan
ubi me prejaka reč

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by G. Trifkovic » 18 Mar 2012 02:51

dr Đorđe N. Lopičić - Nemački ratni zločini 1941-1945
Hi Ivan,

since I don´t have the book (and neither does my library), I wonder if the verdicts on Fortner and Tribukait (both 718. Inf.Div./118. Jg.Div) are in the book? If yes, could you post them here please?

Zivio,

G.

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by 1685 » 19 Mar 2012 11:07

I know this is supposed to be a clear and fact-based thread, with all the dates, names and details that could shed some light on these events, but one story, told by someone who is rather a playwright than an historian, was particularly interesting.

Even tho it's about an autobiographical book and it's expected that the author at least knew those who have witnessed events he is writing about, It's hard to say if this was an actual event or just a fiction - well, I' talking about a prominent Serbian playwright, deeply involved in political establishment of post-war Yugoslavia tho, whose job was to play with reality and search for its epic horizons, even when they didn't exist - but I still find it interesting.

During one of the local trials held by the Yugoslav Military Court - in Vojvodina, as I remember - where German officers were tried for the atrocities committed during the war, one of them was "taking the stand during the hearing".
While answering some questions, he started begging for mercy, swearing on everything he could think of that he didn't commit those crimes. He was literally in tears, almost crawling in front of the Court.
Anyway, at some point, one of the members of the Yugoslav Military Court reminded the defendant that the Court has a solid proof based on the words given by an important witness.
Knowing that he is getting closer and closer to his death sentence, defendant kept crying and swearing that he didn't do it, and even asked the name of the witness who accused him, so he could face him/her and prove his innocence.


When he heard the name - and it was the name of one of his superiors - he suddenly changed.
He stood up, looking completely different, like the fear was never there at all, and said:


"If he said that, then I did it!" :milsmile:


Anyway, when we talk about all these trials, it's always easier to get a clear picture of what was happening to those highly ranked officers and officials, whether they were Germans or just some local traitors, than of what was going on with all those "small" ones, simple people who found themselves on the wrong side at the end of the war.

In all the books I've read, it was always hard to find a clear and objective picture. All the facts (or " the facts") were often determined by our political reality, spread from one extreme to another.

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by G. Trifkovic » 19 Mar 2012 15:36

Hi 1685,

und herzlich willkommen in unserem Forum! Could you disclose more details on the Serbian playwright and his book?

Thanks,

G.

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by 1685 » 19 Mar 2012 17:55

Pozdrav Gajche! :)

Und herzlichen Dank! (I've been reading this forum for many years and you guys are doing some really great job here!)


Well, I didn't want to go deeper with all the story and with the book itself, but yeah, if you insist, it's about Borislav Mihajlovic-Mihiz and his book Autobiografija o drugima...

I have to say - it's a good book, full with details and information about those war and post-war times in Yugoslavia, intrigues, greed and "private wars", in both cultural and political milieu. But when I say that I didn't want to go deeper, it's not because of my own doubts regarding the facts and stories, but more because of the fact that the book is written by someone I, when we talk about politics, feel contempt for.
Maybe the word contempt is too strong, but in post-war Yugoslavia - especially when we talk about Serbia - there was a whole army of self-proclaimed dissidents, fake ones, of course, who were spitting at the system, or so they claimed, yet enjoying all the privileges that system offered them... whenever they could. And he was one of those... (Imagine a student who calls himself a dissident, getting the best jobs he could wish for, over and over again...:) ... if you are familiar with the famous Belgrade's "Simina 9a", and those who were gathering around that circle, you will know what I am talking about)

Anyway, enough with fake dissidents. :) Let's go back to those more genuine ones...

If you have Djilas' book Vlast i pobuna, you can find some details about the prisoners and the way they've been treated in those first few years after the war. Unfortunately I do not have that book right now, but I remember he was mentioning details and conditions regarding these war prisoners and forced labor, even giving some more or less precise numbers. (I found similar things in Krivokapic's book Bes/konacni Tito, but I can't remember anymore if it was Tempo who mentioned it, or someone else...)

Cheers!

P.S. Ajde, kad se nikada ne vidimo u Sarajevu, barem da ovdje popricamo nekad. :)

Tvoj drug iz obdanista, pa onda i iz skole,

Mak

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by G. Trifkovic » 19 Mar 2012 18:49

Djes' drug,

I'm sure Mr. Thompson won't mind this small deviation from the thread's style. ;) Thanks for the info & zivio,

G.

P.S. Looking forward to catching-up with you via the PM system! ;)

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by ansata1976 » 19 Mar 2012 23:00

Konteradmiral Georg Waue Born
01.02.1901 in Münster
executed 08.05.1945 in Pula

Hauptmann Friedrich Josef Radermacher
02.02.1892 in Eupen
executed 20.12.1946 in Belgrad
dylan wrote:Hallo Ansata,

Norweger prozess:

Witek Ignaz, Schwander Karl 20/2/1895, Gemeinhardt Max, Brettschneider Kurt, Fleckstein Leo, Ratschek Cseslaus.

Dylan.
Who has more information about this men?

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by ansata1976 » 22 Mar 2012 23:43

I am looking for the dates(birt and death) of the following men sentenced to death in Yugoslavia:


SS-Rottenführer Anton Eichinger
Oberst Friedrich Bassarke
Hauptmann der Polizei Albert Tenessen
Leutnant Otto Blöss
Major Hans Wagner
Major Eckardt Brettschneider
Oberstleutnants Anton Walter
Hauptmann Hans Götz
Hauptmann Johannes Kemper
Leutnant Josef Klein
Major Heinrich Krüger
SS-Obersturmführer Erich Lipczinski
Leutnant Hermann Lorenz
Hauptmann Karl Müller
Leutnant der Polizei Fritz Müller
Hauptmann Albrecht Rogge
Leutnant Wolfgang Pfleiderer
Major Mathias Rossembeck
Generalmajor Friedrich-Paul Hermann
SS-Sturmführer Alfred Rosendahl/Rosenthal
Leutnant Gustav Heufing
Hauptmann Franz Schilling
Hauptmann Günther Steinmann
Major Ernst Ludwig Langemann Schulze
Polizeipräsident in Kraljevo und Kragujevac Karl Reitz
SS-Sturmscharführer Josef Eckert
Zoll-Sekretär Hermann Maudanz
Polizei-Oberst Hermann Müller
SS-Oberscharführer Thomas Pfeffer

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by ansata1976 » 25 Mar 2012 00:22

I am interested in more information about the following men:

Anton Bujan IV Armee 43. Division death sentence 31.12.1945 in Ljubljana
Alojz or Alois Egert death sentence 28.08.1945 in Ljubljana
Ludvik Veber or Ludwig Weber death sentence 21.8.1945 in Ljubljana
Günther Neubert death sentence 19.7.1947 execution 18.08.1947 in Ljubljana
Friderik Stajnbeck or Friedrich Steinbeck death sentence 07.12.1945 in Ljubljana
Rudolf Lesjak death sentence 13.09.1947 in Celje

I am interested in date of birth, place of birth, rank and the crime why they were sentenced.

And i need the date of execution of:

Hermann Farnleitner
03.04.1908 in Weiz
SS-Ostuf.
death sentence 08.10.1948 in Ljubljana

Georg Kramhöller
28.1.1905 in Rietzmeiss
SS-Untersturmführer
death sentence 26.06.1947 in ???

And i need more information about:


Paul von Wolff
02.07.1900 in ???
executed 04.05.1947 in Belgrad

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by Researcher » 26 Mar 2012 09:56

Hi ansata1976,

Here is ALL I have on your men. Not much but hope it helps. Maybe others can add, confirm or correct the information.

Gerlach and Muller executed 18.08.1947
Josef Wiegele *1913
Hugo Geide *1901
Emil Vogel
No Zangel in my dbase
I have Paul Duscha sentenced on 20.01.49 (could be my input error)

regards
Researcher

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by Phil Nix » 26 Mar 2012 11:37

Paul Hermann born 22.4.1898 in Monchen-Gladbach Gen Maj 1.1.1944 He also served in the bundesheer as Generalmajor Died 14.9.1980
Phil Nix

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by Vagabundo » 30 Mar 2012 03:59

I would like Mr. Trifkovic to contact me if possible. Contact info is in my profile.
Thank you

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by ansata1976 » 31 Mar 2012 23:13

And the date of birth of:

Josef ’Sepp’ Hahn
SS-Scharführer
Gestapo Belgrad 10.05.1941 - 20.09.1941 then Gestapo Mitrovica, Sabac, Loznica and Shkodra until October 1944
Death sentence in Belgrade 22.12.1946
executed 24.01.1947

Josef Eckert
SS-Sturmscharführer
deputy Gestapo chief in Kraljevo September 1942 to September 1943, Head of the Gestapo in Bor since Juli 1943 until 15.01.1944
Death sentence in Belgrade 22.12.1946
executed 24.01.1947

Karl Reitz
Polizei-Major
Chief of Police in Kraljevo und Kragujevac, 16 April 1943. bis 19 Oktober 1944
Death sentence in Belgrade 22.12.1946
executed 24.01.1947

Place of birth:

Jochen Krah
23.04.1923 in ???
SS-Untersturmführer
sentenced to death by shooting
executed 21.12.1947


and the date of execution:

Hermann Farnleitner
03.04.1908 in Weiz
death sentence 08.10.1948 in Ljubljana
executed ???

Georg Kramhöller
28.1.1905 in Rietzmeiss
SS-Untersturmführer
death sentence 26.06.1947 in Maribor
executed ???

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Re: Yugoslav War Crimes Trials of German Officials

Post by ansata1976 » 05 Apr 2012 19:55

Heinrich Ottmar Nötling
03.05.1912 in Geroldsgrün
Hauptmann
executed 08.09.1945 in Belgrad


Arnold Mücke
02.01.1898 in Kamerowo
Hauptmann
executed 09.07.1949 in Vrsac

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