The same has been said of you, and more than once:His later post shows that he was well aware of the guidelines for the operation of the Lebensborn Foundation, and therefore must have been aware that what he initially wrote was a gross distortion of history.
HITLER'S PLANS FOR EASTERN EUROPEThe RSHA estimated the total population to be expelled at 32 million.
This would have been an enormous task requiring a fairly long period of time and a formidable effort. For it would be easier to expel the people living in these areas than to find a sufficient number of Germans to repopulate them. The Plan, drawing on the material collected in the preliminary stages, concluded that 31 million people would have been deported in the course of 25 years. However, in his 1942 memorandum, Dr. Wetzel revised this figure (taking into account certain territorial changes, natural increases, etc.) and arrived at a total of 51 million.
This is an error.Extermination of Polish population was taking place since September 1939(Operation Tannenberg), with plans made much earlier(for example selecting Poles that would be placed in concentration camps).(Nevertheless, at the time Wetzel was writing his commentary, he was aware that killing of part of the Polish Jewish population had already begun, since he comments that Poles were afraid that what was being done to the Jews would also be done to them, and they needed to be reassured that that was not so).
At the time when Wetzel was writing his comments, Generalplan Ost had ceased to be merely a blueprint. Its first part, the KleinePlanung, was already being put into practice. The western areas of Poland had been incorporated into the Reich, hundreds of thousands of Poles had been expelled from them, and further deportations were in progress. Hundreds of thousands of Poles were dying in various concentration camps, while millions of Jews, herded into ghettos and still ignorant of their fate, were awaiting "the final solution of the Jewish problem." The rulers of the Third Reich were in a hurry to carry out their criminal plans while there was still a war to divert the attention of the world from what was going on in Eastern Europe.
http://www.dac.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htmWith regard to the ungermanisable part of the Polish population, Wetzel suggests that instead of expelling them to Siberia, they should be encouraged to emigrate to Brazil. Wetzels' rationale is that there had already been considerable emigration of Polish peasants to Brazil, and there was already a substantial Polish emigrant population there; furthermore, Brazil had vast amounts of unused land, more than enough to settle all the unwanted population of the Generalgouvernement
So as we see the plan of emigration was towards a small portion of Polish nation (certainly I doubt that Mills will claim that 20 milion Poles were intelligentsia class)The provisions of the Plan were that 80-85 per cent of the Poles would have to be deported from the German settlement area - to regions in the East. This, according to German calculations, would involve about 20 million people. About 3-4 million - all of them peasants - suitable for Germanization as far as "racial values" were concerned - would be allowed to remain. They would be distributed among German majorities and Germanized within a single generation.
The 20 million Poles not suitable for Germanization TOP presented greater difficulties. Obviously they would have to be expelled from their native land; but the problem was what to do with them. Wetzel stated in his comments that the Polish question could not be settled in the same way as the Jewish. In his opinion, this might discredit the German nation in the eyes of the world for years to come. It might seem strange that this anxiety about world public opinion was not felt concerning "the final solution of the Jewish problem." Presumably the Nazi leaders thought that the extermination of the Jews would pass almost unnoticed in a world absorbed, as it then was, by a war effort on an unprecedented scale. In the Nazi plans, the final solution of the Jewish problem - that is the annihilation of European Jewry, was to be completed before the end of the war. The other argument used against mass extermination of the Poles was the fear that other nations in the East would feel themselves threatened by the same fate. There is, of course, no need to delude ourselves that humanitarian motives would have led the Nazis to shrink from mass annihilation of the Polish people or any other nation. If they rejected the methods tried out on the Jews, it was purely because of practical considerations - the fear that this threat to their existence might unite the Slav peoples in common opposition to Nazi rule. The Hitlerites reckoned that Germany, though master of vast areas after the triumphant conclusion of the war, would be considerably weakened in numbers.
The only solution, therefore, to the Polish question, according to Geralplan- Ost, was the deportation of 80-85 per cent of the Poles to western Siberia. They were to be scattered over as wide an area as possible and intermixed with the local populace. The Germans were afraid that if the Poles were settled as a compact group they would in time Polonize the Siberians (Sibiriakentum) and a "Greater Poland" would evolve in that region. Fragmentation was to lead to an opposite development - assimilation and absorption by the local population.
As in the case of the Czechs, Wetzel recommended that the Polish intelligentsia be allowed to emigrate overseas; he considered that this social group with its great organizing talents and propensity for underground activity was a grave threat to the future Thousand-Year Reich. [Emigration, as it turned out, did not work very well. By Hitler's order, most were put to death.]
No, all we see is a falsification by Molobo's anonymous source.So as we see the plan of emigration was towards a small portion of Polish nation (certainly I doubt that Mills will claim that 20 milion Poles were intelligentsia class).
I had read up on Lebensborn. I have read a bit more now:michael mills wrote:It was Pieter Kuiper, when he wrote:His later post shows that he was well aware of the guidelines for the operation of the Lebensborn Foundation, and therefore must have been aware that what he initially wrote was a gross distortion of history.There was the Lebensborn breeding program of prize-Aryans.
http://hsc.csu.edu.au/modern_history/na ... page65.htmUnmarried mothers received a new level of support from the Nazis. This was in line with their desire to increase the pure Aryan race. Himmler started a program called Lebensborn (Spring of Life). It provided assistance in the last weeks of pregnancy to unwed mothers who had children by Schutzstaffel men and helped with legitimisations and acted as an adoption agency to interested party members. Himmler said, "We only recommended genuinely valuable, racially pure men as Zeugungshelfer (procreation helpers)".
Himmler also issued a notorious procreation order to the entire Schutzstaffel during the war "...Only he who leaves a child behind can die with equanimity".
The Lebensborn homes took in about 250-300 children from Poland, that had "nordic looks".Aktiv war der Lebensborn im Osten bei der „Eindeutschung“ „fremdvölkischer“ Waisenkinder aus dem „Warthegau“, „deren rassisches Erscheinungsbild auf nordische Eltern schliessen“ lasse. Diese Kinder wurden auch gegen den Willen ihrer Eltern oder Fürsorgepersonen nach Deutschland verschleppt. Die ersten Transporte, die spätestens im September 1942 nach Deutschland kamen, wurden in die Heime „Hochland“ und „Pommern“ gebracht. Später wurden sie in das im September 1943 eröffnete Heim „Alpenland“ in Oberwies bei Gmunden am Traunsee (Österreich) gebracht. Insgesamt wurden 250 - 300 Kinder, aus dem „Warthegau“ in Lebensborn-Heime verschleppt.
"Artificial insemination" is not my idea of a sexual phantasy.michael mills wrote:A breeding program only exists when parents are selected by an authority and mated together for the purpose of producing offspring. That was not the case in the Lebensborn centres, despite the pornographic fantasies.
Mr. Mills could you stop making such comments... i dont fully understand why moderators allow you to make them - maybe because you are intelligent enough to make them only as suggestions not directly offensive :/michael mills wrote:Molobo made the following historically incorrect claim:
No, all we see is a falsification by Molobo's anonymous source.So as we see the plan of emigration was towards a small portion of Polish nation (certainly I doubt that Mills will claim that 20 milion Poles were intelligentsia class).
If Molobo deigns to read the text of Wetzel's comments on the Generalplan Ost in the book to which I referred (it was edited by Madajczyk, one of Molobo's fellow Poles, so he should believe it), he will see that Wtezel was clearly referring to the emigration to Brazil of Polish peasants. That is why Weyzel talked of the availability of land for settlement in Brazil; that would have been of interest to Polish peasants, but scarcely to intellectuals.
Janusz Gumkowski and Kazimierz Leszczynski "Poland Under NaziNo, all we see is a falsification by Molobo's anonymous source.
Above statement is incorrect-l he doesn't speak of peasants but of 20 milion Poles.he will see that Wtezel was clearly referring to the emigration to Brazil of Polish peasant.
I doubt being robed of possesions, treated like animal, and sent away thousands of miles(I don't have to point out that these resettlement were eufemisms for mass murder in reality of course ) could be consider to interest for 20 milion Poles.That is why Weyzel talked of the availability of land for settlement in Brazil; that would have been of interest to Polish peasants, but scarcely to intellectuals
184 Odilo Globocnik, Hitler's Man in the East
* * * * *
On 2 October 1941, nine months before Heydrich was assassinated by a British-backed Czech and a Slovak agent in Prague, he outlined at a secret gathering in his Prague-based seat of power, Cernin Palace, the fate intended for the tens of millions of Slays living across what was increasingly referred to in SS circles in Berlin, and occupied Poland, simply as the East. Heydrich's candid briefing speech was delivered just four days after he took up his new position as Deputy Reich Protektor of Bohemia and Moravia, suggesting that what he said that day was of crucial importance both to him and to his administration, and he wanted his senior personnel to be aware of it as soon as possible. Before he delivered this secret address, his state under-secretary, SA-Brigadefuhrer von Burgsdorff, said during introductory comments that those attending were obliged to treat what they were about to hear as strictly secret information. All the points made were of crucial importance for anyone wishing to understand and appreciate what was about to unfold.
Heydrich first reminded those present that the SS was manned by the shock troops of the party "in all affairs concerning the internal political security of the region and the protection of the National Socialist idea." This was no idle statement, for Berlin's ethnic cleansing actions, at least in Poland, were exclusively planned and executed by SS men and a myriad of SS or Himmler agencies, including academic research institutes, with the help of sup-porters of the Ukrainian Nationalist Organization, and the Ukrainian Central Committee, in the case of the cleansing of the Zamosc Lands. He next went on to stress that he was undertaking the work of his superior, Heinrich Himmler, who held the position of Reichskommissar for the Strengthening of Germandom (RKFDV). Heydrich stressed that the Reich's military occupation of "enormous expanses in Europe," both Western and Eastern, was to pave the way for a permanent state of affairs, another Final Solution. His exact words on this confident proclamation were: "We will make it clear that the occupation of this space will, in any case, not be transitional but final in many regions" (emphasis added).48
In other words, the colonizing intentions of the Reich's all-powerful Hitler-Himmler leadership group were also destined to include a Final Solution of the Slavic Problem. Clearly, men like Globocnik were therefore needed, more so in the future than in the recent past. Those invited to hear this top-secret address also learned that the Hitler-Himmler group looked favorably upon Norway, Holland, Flanders, Denmark, and Sweden, since the peoples of these nations were seen as racial or blood brothers. People of Germanic origin had in the main settled these nations, which Heydrich preferred to refer to as regions, he alleged: "...and which in some kind of manner, about this
VII. Globocnik Moves to "Re-Germanize"... 185
we must be clear here, will belong to us whether in the framework of a state federation, Gau or in some other way."49
He stressed that these so-called Germanic peoples inhabiting these north-western and northern European nations should be treated with tolerance and understanding:
But the Slavs, those predominantly inhabiting the East, would, under no circumstances, be treated as mildly. Referring to the nations of the East — Poland, the Baltic States, and the various Soviet republics, he said:It is clear that we must find an entirely different way in which to treat those people from that used for peoples of other races, Slavs and similar peoples. The Germanic race must be gripped hard, justly, but must be led in a humane manner, in a similar manner as our people, if we want to keep them permanently in the Reich and want to merge them with us.50
The great Nazi racial divide was between East and West, between all of Europe and Western Siberia, with the Ural Mountain chain the new and great racial as well as physical or topographical divide; those seen as belonging to the former were doomed, in a variety of ways, but ultimately by wholesale dispossession of their lands, by their forcible removal, deportation, expulsion, and resettlement, as Globocnik showed on the Zamosc Lands. Those to the west were — if designated Germanic — to partake in the benefits that flowed from the Reich's victories and its colonization and exploitation of the eastern lands. They were to be settled across the newly acquired East. The Jews were also not forgotten by Heydrich. They were seen as a group whose influence simply had to be removed from all the societies of Europe's so-called Germanic region — Norway, Holland, Flanders, Denmark, and Sweden—since they were contaminating these peoples and that entire western region. According to Heydrich, "They [the so-called Germanics] are people who as a resultThese, therefore, are the regions where a German upper stratum must be established in a very clear form of leadership; following the military development deep into Russia and far up to the Urals, these regions are to serve us as a raw material base and their inhabitants as workers for great and cultural tasks, as helots, to put it very drastically. These are the regions which one actually handles as if digging dikes around new land on the coast: by drawing a defensive wall far away in the East composed of warrior farmers, so as to seal off the land against the storm floods of Asia, and then to subdivide it with cross-walls, so as to gradually win this land for us, by continuing at the fringe of Germany property, which is settled with German blood, and steadily moving forwards, one German wall after another, making it possible to advance towards the East the German settlement by Germans who are of German blood. It is from this view-point that you must see all the tasks in the East, which we now have to fulfil [emphases added.]51
186 Odilo Globocnik, Hitler's Man in the East
of bad political leadership and the influence of the Jewry are somehow crooked and who must firstly slowly be brought back to the basic elements of present-day thinking." (Emphasis added)"
The Zamosc Lands expulsions not only fit snugly into Heydrich's eastern view; those lands became the first to see this view applied. Although nearly all the wartime documentation on Generalplan Ost was deliberately destroyed shortly before Germany's defeat in May 1945, several researchers, including especially Czeslaw Madajczyk, have conducted protracted investigation to find evidence that gives greater insight into this plan's scale, dimensions, and details.
From Madajczyk's and a small number of others' work, we know that Himmler created in 1939 a special unit, IIIB, within his Reich Central Main Office in Berlin, to devise the broad parameters of how Slays would be removed from all the lands between Berlin and the Ural Mountain range, followed by settlement on this vast territory of Germans. This unit was headed by Dr. Hans Ehlich, who revealed the existence of Generalplan Ost while giving evidence at Nuremberg. A Berlin-based research unit headed by Berlin geographer and SS man Konrad Meyer-Hetling largely undertook the settlement aspects. Meyer-Hetling was sub-contracted to prepare a broad plan of settlement. Ehlich's experts had drawn up a two-stage proposal, with the first called the Kleine Planung (Little or Small Plan), and the second, or more ambitious, the Grosse Planung (Big or Bigger Plan), looking several decades ahead. The Little Plan considered only the lands immediately adjacent Germany's eastern border, specifically, western Poland, which had been incorporated into the Reich in October 1939. The implementation of the Kleine Planung had involved expulsions of ethnic Poles and Jews, many of whom had reached Globocnik's Lublin District during 1939—40 as expellees. Polish historians Janusz Gumkowski and Kazimierz Leszczynski have described the existence of this dual stage planning in the following way:
VII. Globocnik Moves to "Re-Germanize"... 187The ... Kleine Planung covered the immediate future. It was to be put into practice gradually as the Germans conquered the areas to the east of their pre-war borders. The individual stages of this "Little Plan" would then be worked out in greater detail. In this way the plan for Poland was drawn up at the end of November, 1939. The second part of the Plan, known as the Grosse Planung, dealt with objectives to be realized after the war was won. They were to be carried into effect gradually and relatively slowly over a period of 25 to 30 years. Generalplan Ost presented the Nazi Reich and the German people with gigantic tasks. It called for the gradual preparation of a vast area of Eastern Europe for settlement by Germans and eventual absorption into the Great 1000-Year Reich. This area covered territory stretching from the eastern borders of Germany more or less to a line running from Lake Ladoga in the north to the Black Sea into the region of the Crimea in the South. The 1000-year Reich was thus to absorb the whole of Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic countries excepting
Himmler and Globocnik, however, were unable to wait until the war had been won before they became ethnic cleansers and Germanic colonizers. They were impatient, which explains why they launched the Generalplan Ost in a fashion that can only be considered to have been wildly premature. One probable reason for this was the fact that Globocnik had in 1941 created his own research unit, the Forschungsstelle für Ostunterkunfte (FfO) (Research Center for Eastern Settlement), in Lublin, whose researchers, led by SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Gustav Hanelt, set about devising all the necessary sub-plots of the Germanization of the East; for instance, SS and police strongpoints, from which land settlement by German farmers would spread, and settlement walls would be created.54 Precisely how the FfO, the Kleine, and the Grosse Planung, and all the other work carried out by Dr. Ehlich's Berlin-based researchers, and Meyer-Hetling's settlement proposals or blueprints dovetailed is unclear. The explanation may be that this is best understood by noting Globocnik's longstanding proclivity for not waiting or taking heed of anyone at any time.Finland, (for the moment) and a huge chunk of the Soviet Union — most of Russia, White Russia, the Ukraine and the whole of Crimea. According to the Plan, these areas were to be "Germanised" before being incorporated into the Reich.53
Another possible reason is that all the documents and working papers of the Generalplan Ost were deliberately destroyed just before the war ended, and that was also the fate of the FfO's working plans and papers. But once Globocnik appeared on any scene, there was the inevitable pattern: rivalry, confusion, bitterness, and recrimination. He invariably sought to become the man who gave the lead, and that could even mean acting well ahead of what Berlin's researchers and theorists may have foreseen. Himmler must also take some blame for this, since in the summer of 1941 he visited Ukraine and the Baltic region, familiarizing himself with the cities of these regions. Nevertheless, the most likely link between Berlin's Kleine Planung and Globocnik's Lublin work was that the Kleine Planung was simply the Germanization of western Poland. The work was conducted in large measure by Hermann Alois Krumey from his Lodz (Litzmannstadt) base.
The Grosse Planung, on the other hand, applied all the intended SS and Pan-German demographic upheavals — expulsion of Slays and Balts eastwards and the settling in their place of Germans — on lands beyond western Poland, an operation that began with Globocnik's forced Germanization of the Zamosc Lands, with the managerial and ideological assistance of his Carinthian crony Reinhold von Mohrenschildt. There was also the case of the Baltic region, one in which Himmler took particular interest, placing it nearly on a par with the Zamosc Lands. Himmler's special interest in the Baltic region is in part explained by the fact that several of the major Baltic cities, when still only towns, had been associated with the Northern German commercial
188 Odilo Globocnik, Hitler's Man in the East
agency known as the Hanseatic League as ports or trading outposts. Moreover, Himmler visited several of these cities during 1941; seeing their architecture and central-city plans convinced him that the East had in fact once been a Germanic zone of Europe in its entirety. To Himmler it was therefore not a matter of purifying pockets of the East by removing anyone classified as "aliens"— namely, Slavs and Balts. To him the Germanization of the Baltic and Slavic Lands of the East was in fact a matter of retrieving, regaining, or reclaiming what Himmler saw as having once been Germanic. It was thus a venture of removing the racial usurpers to what Heydrich called "deep into Russia and far up to the Urals." Globocnik fits snugly into this outlook and this impatience of Himmler's.
Page 62:Der Plan sieht nun die Aussiedlung von 80 bis 85% Polen vor, d.h. es kommen, je ob man von 20 oder 24 Millionen Polen ausgeht, 16 bis 20,4 Millionen Polen zur Aussiedlung, während 3 bis 4,8 Millionen Polen im deutschen Siedlungsraum bleiben sollen.
My translation:
The plan projects the out-settlement of 80 to 85% of the Poles, ie 16 to 20.4 million Poles for out-settlement, depending on whether the figure of 20 or 24 Million Poles is taken as the base, while 3 to 4.8 million Poles are to remain in the German area of settlement.
Page 63:Im Ostministerium interessiert nun aber ganz besonders die Frage, wo die rassisch unerwünschten Polen verbleiben sollen. Mehr oder minder 20 Millionen Polen in Westsibirien zwangsweise geschlossen anzusetzen, bedeutet zweifellos eine ständige, kompakte Gefahr des sibirischen Raumes, ein Herd ständigen Aufruhrs gegen die deutsche Ordnungsmacht. ......................................................... Die geschlossene Ansiedlung eines derartigen Millionenblockes von Polen würde wahrscheinlich nur zu zwei Möglichkeiten führen: Entweder werden die ziffermäßig etwas schwächeren Sibiriaken im Laufe der Zeit polonisiert und es entsteht ein "Großpolen". Oder aber wir machen uns die Sibiriaken in jedem Falle zu erbitterten Feinden, treiben sie den Russen in die Arme und verhindern die Bildung eines Sibiriakentums damit auch.
My translation:
The Ministry of the East is particularly interested in the question of where the racially unwanted Poles are to reside. To place by force more or less 20 million Poles as a group in West Siberia undoubtedly means a continuing compact danger in the Siberian area, a focus of continuous upheaval against the German disciplinary power. .................... The closed settlement of such a block of millions of Poles would probably lead to only two possibilities: Either the Siberians, somewhat weaker in numbers, will be polonised in the course of time and a "Great Poland" will arise. Or else we will make bitter enemies of the Siberians in any case, will drive them into the arms of the Russians, and also prevent the formation of a Siberian ethnicity.
As is obvious, Wetzel was suggesting the emigration of millions of ungermanisable Poles to Brazil, not just of a handful of intellectuals. It is obvious that he envisaged the emigration of Polish peasants, who would be agricultural settlers.Daß man die Polenfrage nicht in dem Sinne lösen kann, daß man die Polen wie die Juden liquidiert, dürfte auf der Hand liegen. Eine derartige Lösung der Polenfrage würde das deutsche Volk bis in die ferne Zukunft belasten und uns überall die Sympathien nehmen, zumal auch die anderen Nachbarvölker damit rechnen müßten, bei gegebener Zeit ähnlich behandelt zu werden. Es muß meines Erachtens eine Lösung der Polenfrage in dem Sinne gefunden werden, daß die oben angedeuteten politischen Gefahren auf das geringmöglichste Maß zurückgeführt werden. Bereits in März 1941 hat der Unterzeichnete in einer Denkschrift den Standpunkt vertreten, die Polenfrage zum Teil auch durch mehr oder minder freiwillige Auswanderung nach Uebersee zu lösen. Wie dem Unterzeichneten auch bekannt geworden ist, steht das Auswärtige Amt dem Gedanken einer eventuellen teilweisen Lösung der Polenfrage in Südamerika, insbesondere in Brasilien, nicht uninteressiert gegenüber. Man müßte meines Erachtens erreichen, daß später nach Friedensschluß die mehr oder minder intellektuellen, aber auch zum Teil anderen Schichten des polnischen Volkes, die für eine Eindeutschung aus rassischen und auch politischen Gründen nicht in betracht kommen, nach Südamerika, evtl. auch Nord- oder Mittleamerika auswandern. Brasilien mit seiner Kapazität von 1 Milliarde 200 Millionen Menschen braucht dringend Menschen. Landwirtschaftlicher Siedlungsraum ist dort genügend vorhanden, landwirtschaftliche Siedler werden auch nicht unerwünscht sein, es sei denn, daß sie in solchem Maße erscheinen, daß eine Umvolkung ausgeschlossen erscheint. Mehrere Millionen der uns gefährlichsten Polen im Wege der Auswanderung in Südamerika, insbesondere Brasilien unterzubringen, erscheint nicht unmöglich. Hierbei könnte man evtl. die Südamerikadeutschen, insbesondere die Deutschen aus Südbrasilien austauschweise zurückzuholen versuchen und sie in den neuen Siedlungsgebieten evtl. in Taurien und in der Krim, bzw. im Dnjeprbogen ansetzen, soweit nicht ein Ansatz im afrikanischen Kolonialraum des Reiches in Betracht kommt. Im Hinblick darauf, daß die deutschen Kolonien in Afrika keine Siedlungskolonien sein werden, wird die Zahl der Rückwanderer, die für eine Siedlung im Osten in Betracht kommen, größer wie der in Afrika zum Einsatz gelangenden sein. Wir müssen mit allen Mitteln versuchen, die Masse der Südamerikadeutschen vor dem Aufgang im Südamerikanertum zu bewahren. Das einzige wirkliche Mittel ist nur die Zurückführung. Eine Verbreitung des Polentums in Südamerika dürfte, insbesondere, wenn sich die Auswanderung nach Brasilien erstrecken sollte, keine erhebliche Gefahr bedeuten, da dem fanatischen katholischen Klerus in Brasilien verhältnismäßig leicht die Umvolkung der katholischen Polen gelingen sollte. Der Gedanke, ähnlich wie der Jude Ballin für Deutsche, hier für Polen eine dementsprechende Auswanderungspolitik zu betreiben und Gotenhafen als den großen Auswanderungshafen für Polen zu gestalten, wird ernsthaft erwogen werden müssen.
My translation:
It must be obvious that the Polish Question cannot be solved by liquidating the Poles like the Jews. Such a solution of the Polish Question would incriminate the German people far into the future and deprive of us sympathy everywhere, particularly as the other neighbouring peoples would have to reckon with being similarly treated at a given time. In my opinion, a solution of the Polish Question must be found in the sense of reducing the political dangers mentioned above to the greatest possible extent. As early as March 1941 the undersigned had taken the viewpoint of solving the Polish Question in part through more or less voluntary emigration overseas. As has further become known to the undersigned, the Foreign Office is also not uninterested in the thought of a possible partial solution of the Polish Question in South America, particularly in Brazil. In my opinion, we should should bring about later, after the conclusion of peace, the emigration to South America and possibly also North and Central America, of the more or less intellectual classes of the Polish people, but also in part other classes, which do not come into consideration for germanisation for racial and also political reasons. Brazil, with its capacity of 1.2 billion persons, urgently needs people. In any case sufficient space for agricultural settlement is available there, agricultural settlers will not be unwanted, unless they appear to such an extent that ethnic assimilation appears impossible. It does not appear impossible to accommodate several million of the Poles most dangerous to us in South America, especially in Brazil, by means of emigration. In doing so we could possibly try to bring back the Germans of South America, especially the Germans from South Brasil, as an exchange, and to place them in the new settlement areas, possibly in Taurida and the Crimea, or else in the Dnieper Bend,to the extent that their placement in the African colonial territory of the Reich does not come into consideration. With regard to the fact that the German colonies in Africa will not be colonies for settlement, the number of returning emigrants coming into consideration for settlement in the East will be greater than that being deployed in Africa. We must try by all means to preserve the mass of South American Germeans from being absorbed into the South American population. The only real means of achieving that is bringing them back. An expansion of the Polish ethnic group in South America should not mean a great danger, especially if the emigration were to extend to Brazil, since the fanatical Catholic clergy in Brazil should relatively easily succeed in ethnically assimilating the Catholic Poles. We will have to seriously consider the thought of pursuing here an appropriate policy of emigration for the Poles, similar to the one by the Jew Ballin for the Germans [Note by me: Ballin was before the First World War the owner of the Norddeutscher-Lloyd shipping line, and his ships transported hundreds of thousands of German emigrants to America], and to turn Gotenhafen [Gdynia] into the great emigration port for Poles.
(bold by me)michael mills wrote:Since Poprzeczny seems to be relying on the same dubious Polish historians, his assessment of German plans in regard to the resettlement of parts of the Plish population must be treated with care.
. However, I have only one question. How do you imagine emigration of millions Polish peasants to Brasil? By rafts? Do you realy belive in moronic Wetzel's plan? Don't disappoint me! You try to hide your anti-polish prejudices behind your "credible" sources, but very often your comments about Poles are malicious. What is the source of your bias? Maybe your study in Germany (you mentioned about it in some thread)? "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" 
No he speaks about majority of Poles, 80-85 % not peasents.Unless of course you believe that they were all peasants, neither he does speak about agricultural settlement.As is obvious, Wetzel was suggesting the emigration of millions of ungermanisable Poles to Brazil, not just of a handful of intellectuals.
You also wrote:Molobo made the following historically incorrect claim:
So as we see the plan of emigration was towards a small portion of Polish nation (certainly I doubt that Mills will claim that 20 milion Poles were intelligentsia class).
No, all we see is a falsification by Molobo's anonymous source.
If Molobo deigns to read the text of Wetzel's comments on the Generalplan Ost in the book to which I referred (it was edited by Madajczyk, one of Molobo's fellow Poles, so he should believe it), he will see that Wtezel was clearly referring to the emigration to Brazil of Polish peasants. That is why Weyzel talked of the availability of land for settlement in Brazil; that would have been of interest to Polish peasants, but scarcely to intellectuals.
Wetzel's critique of Generalplan Ost and his counterproposals for resettlement should not be confused with the plan itself. Certainly, if the original plan did not involve the murder and deportation of millions of Poles, there would have been no need for Wetzel's Brazilian suggestion to modify it. For details of the actual (and less humane) implementation of the plan to deport Poles from areas destined for German settlement, see Himmler's address to the SS-Liebstandarte at: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 817#587817It appears that the Polish historians relied on by Molobo have seriously distorted Wetzel's comments by making appear that he was suggesting only the emigration of a handful of Polish intellectuals to South America. Since Poprzeczny seems to be relying on the same dubious Polish historians, his assessment of German plans in regard to the resettlement of parts of the Plish population must be treated with care.
Now I would like to bring another matter to your attention. Very frequently the member of the Waffen-SS thinks about the deportation of this people here. These thoughts came to me today when watching the very difficult work out there performed by the Security Police, supported by your men, who help them a great deal. Exactly the same thing happened in Poland in weather 40 degrees below zero, where we had to haul away thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands; where we had to have the toughness -- you should hear this but also forget it again immediately -- to shoot thousands of leading Poles, where we had to have the toughness, otherwise it would have taken revenge on us later. We also had to bring in, in this winter of 40 degrees below zero, ten thousands of Germans, and had to take care of their needs -- that the women were warm; that, when they bore children, these children did not experience want and destitution; where we had to take care of their horses; where we had to take care of the baggage of these poor Germans from Volhynia; all duties where the proud soldier says: "My God, why do I have to do that, this ridiculous job here . . . !" Gentlemen, it is much easier in many cases -- and that I would like to tell you this once, or would like to recall to you, you will gladly admit: in many cases it is much easier to go into combat with a company than to suppress an obstructive population of low cultural level in some area with a company, or to carry out executions, or to haul away people, or to evict crying and hysterical women, or to return our German racial brethren across the border from Russia and to take care of them.