michael mills wrote:
The many east European peoples who carried out their own independent anti-Jewish actions or assisted the German occupiers with theirs were not influenced by Streicher's publications, which they had probably never heard of
Michael as I remember telling you on another forum, one of the less than a handful stories my dad told to me about his youth was the one where he and his mates (as children) would go to the well of the Jewish village and throw a pigs head down it for obvious reasons. Pogroms against the "Christ Killers" have always been in the European psyche.
I said: "Streicher created a value in the demise of the Jews in the minds of the German people which allowed the unthinkable just ten years previously to happen, and with the participation of tens of thousands who knew what the outcome of their part in the "activity" would be."
You said: Did he really create such a value? Do you have sociological evidence to support that bold statement?
As I mentioned if you are printing and widely distributing children’s books that demonize Jews you are looking for an outcome, and that is the denigrating and demonizing of Jews in the minds of a generation. Thereby when they are asked to murder Jewish children and women they are compliant.
I may not be as well read on the holocaust as you Michael in quoting chapter and verse regarding German formations etc, but I grew up with the guys who did the dirty work and got firsthand accounts of the times...eventually...on their death beds almost, but I got it from their mouths, not the internet. So don't spin me, my search for truth has no bias, the way it turned out I wish it had not or I could deny what became evident to me.
The degree of influence that Streicher had on the German public mind is highly questionable. Even the leading National Socialists regarded him as a half-demented fool, and it is likely that the better-educated elements of the German people totally rejected him and his quasi-pornographic material.
Michael you tell me that the top Nazis had nothing but contempt for Streicher, I tell you that the top echelon Nazis all harbored hate and animosity between themselves seven days a week, because that is the way Hitler ruled his minions. Adolph did not want cozy little friendships amongst those at the top, one may not topple him but two or three might. Michael you would not survive in Nazi Germany because you really do not understand the psychology behind the major players, no offence.. Streicher was not meant to influence the top Nazis, he was meant to influence the plebs, and he did.
Sociological investigations have shown that the anti-Jewish propaganda peddled by Streicher and his ilk was not a major factor in the German people's support for Hitler, and that it was regarded with a certain amount of disdain. For example, there was wide-spread public rejection of the anti-Jewish violence perpetrated on the so-called "Night of Broken Glass" on 9-19 November 1938.
Yes Michael you are exactly right, I recall the mass protests against the pogroms in Bonn, Nuremberg and Berlin, the Germans were furious at the dehumanizing of the Jewish citizens, I stand corrected.
Similar surveys of German personnel who actually were involved in anti-Jewish actions, including massacres, have shown that their main motivation was not the occult judeophobia peddled by Streicher but rather a sense of duty,
You really are a simple soul, If I had been a part of murdering children and was caught I would say "the boss told me to do it" At this point Michael I really have to ask are you so short of a cause that you defend the absurd.
Rather the massacre of the Jews was carried out amidst Poles, Ukrainians, Balts and other peoples who either approved of it or looked the other way, even without having been influenced by Streicher's propaganda.
I went to a pre Christmas dinner with friend today, Latvian and Estonian friends. Two of the guests were over ninety, still mobile and still thinking, they were there, I got more today than you could assemble in a decade, and it is first hand. You keep denying, it's an ideological agenda, but you are fooling yourself.
I said: The only comment I have to that lot is "give me a break".
You said: I am deeply impressed by the intellectual rigor of that argument.
I am not an intellectual as you purport to be by my denigration, but what I say is not scripted and regurgitated.
All things must pass...