European Jewish Communites Shoah Then Arab Jewish Communites Judenfrei NOW

[wm]

Professor Finkelstein in a recent interview with Glenn Greenwald:

Up until 1967, Israel simply wasn't on the political map. And I don't mean in general, I mean in particular, among Jews. Israel was a backwater. It was very simple. The word is – let's just call it spartan, and I was going to say primitive, but I changed that. It was a very spartan place and no American Jews had any thought of emigrating there.

Remember, World War Two was the great breakthrough of American Jewry, the first time most of the obstacles to access by American Jews into the uppermost regions of American political and economic life – the obstacles fell away. They didn't completely disappear until the civil rights movement. But that's a separate issue. After World War II, Jews were very optimistic about the United States, and they had good reason to be optimistic because all sorts of opportunities opened up and Jews were all ready, willing and able to take advantage of those opportunities.

Just to give you one example – and you'll forgive me if I'm repeating myself from things I've said elsewhere – I attended a public high school, James Madison High School, in Brooklyn, New York, and the top students in the top classes were all Jewish. Let me give you an indication of where those students ended up. Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader, went to my high school. I was reasonably good friends. I won't say close friends, but I was reasonably friends with his sister, a brilliant woman like her brother. […] Her boyfriend was my best friend. Bernie Sanders attended my high school. Ruth Bader Ginsburg attended my high school. Judge Judy attended my high school. Believe it or not, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, six, six Nobel laureates attended my high school. What's my point? Jews were now ready to make it. They were confident, as it turned out to be, justifiably, that what they would make it, that they would occupy the top tier. T I E R.

The top tier of American society, which, as I said, is what happened. So, they didn't care about Israel. That's right. Well, it's like this backwater. And it was, as I say, very simple, spartan, and it was a nice place to spend a summer vacation, on a kibbutz. Well, it was like summer camp. And then you come back from the kibbutz and now it's back to serious business. You're sitting at home, you're studying, and you have your eyes on the prize.

So up until 1967, and, as I said, I'm only 13 in 1967, there was no discussion about Israel. It was a very political time. It's the 1960s, of course. But we talked about the war in Vietnam. We talked about the civil rights movement, even believe me – and I'm not trying to be a propagandist here, I'm trying to simply be objective because there's no propaganda necessary here – even the 1967 war, it just went right by us. It happened. Remember, it was over in six days. And so, a week later or two weeks later, it's forgotten.
However, it did mark a major shift in American Israeli relations at the political level and also, of course, at the military level and that did have significant consequences for American Jewish life. Israel now entered American Jewish life in a big way, for sure. But it didn't transform, it didn't redirect the American Jewish trajectory toward physical relocation to Israel. That was, you know, it was off the spectrum.

Yeah. A handful of Jews immigrated. I'll tell you the truth. Again, I'm not saying this necessarily in a pejorative way – It was mostly Jews who are unsuccessful here. The crude way to put it is ‘losers’. Okay. I don't mean to call them losers, but the tier, the top tier, they stay here. It is also true to say, as you pointed out, again, old history, the second biggest party in Israel – the biggest party was called the Mapai.
It was a Labor Party. It was part of the Second International for those of you who are familiar with those distinctions – but the second biggest party, the Mapan was totally pro-Soviet Union. It was blindly pro-Soviet Union.
And my father was in what was called Hashomer Hoxha here. It was a socialist Zionist organization, it eventually became part of Mapam. You couldn't say a critical word about the Soviet Union if you were in the Mapam. And the leaders of the Zionist movement, including Mapai, the Labor Party under Ben-Gurion – Ben-Gurion, you'll know as the founding premier of Israel, but also the most influential figure – They used to call Ben Gurion the Zionist Lenin – and they modeled themselves after the Bolsheviks. They did model themselves after the Bolsheviks. And it's true to say that at the political level, Israel was a very repressive place up until 1977, when Menachem Begin and the right-wing Likud Party came to power.
It was a very repressive, quasi-Soviet type society.
...
Professor Finkelstein: I wrote a book back in the 2000s, I can't remember now what year, probably around 2006, part of which was an examination of what periodically is called – and it's literally periodic – it's called the New anti-Semitism. And you could see several waves of this literature, this alleged scholarship, all of which resurfaces, as I said, periodically and invariably has the same title, the new anti-Semitism.

If you look closely at the chronology of this literature, it almost perfectly coincides with the new challenges that Israel faces in its foreign policy. So, you have one round in the mid-1970s right after the 1973 war, sometimes called the Yom Kippur War, where Israel was under a lot of pressure to withdraw from the Egyptian Sinai, a territory it had occupied in the 1967 war and from which it refused to withdraw. Ultimately, it was Jimmy Carter who compelled Israel to withdraw from the Egyptian Sinai. I don't want to go there right now.

The point is the first round of what's called the new anti-Semitism coincided with Israel's need for some support from the Americans to resist the pressures on Israel to acquiesce in international law.

The second round was in 1982, right after Israel invaded Lebanon, and killed – the estimates are between 15,000 and 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, overwhelmingly civilians. That war climaxed in the Israeli massacres in Sabra and Shatila. Israel took a huge public relations blow as a result of its carryings-on in Lebanon. And once again, Israel needed a propaganda victory and revitalized the new anti-Semitism claim with a slew of books, reportage and so forth. And you could see that pattern. I won't go through it with you exhaustively, but it exists and it keeps recurring.

And then, the background for all of these claims of new anti-Semitism is the systematic instrumentalization or weaponization of the Nazi Holocaust to drill into the heads of American Jews of there, but for the grace of God, [go you] and should you face the same calamity as Jews, face your World War II, you will need a refuge – that refuge, of course, being the state of Israel. So, you could say there are these combined – one constant, one resurgent – recurring periodic propaganda blasts to try to smear, to sow the fear of God into the hearts of American Jews.

That would be a purely propagandistic claim. That is to say, it was all about propaganda. Was there more to it? Well, actually, I will acknowledge there was another element. The other element is, as a factual matter, demographically, Jews are an infinitesimal minority in the United States today. They represent 2% of the American population and any minority is going to feel a little bit unmoored in any society. And given the history of the Jews, it is neither a propagandistic one nor a real one. Given that history of the Jews, of course, there's going to be a certain amount of, let's just say, lack of peace about their futures.

[CogCalgary]

Dershowitz vs Finkelstein revealed much about his positions.There indeed were communist friends in the early days.
If only losers went to Israel they sure produced a high level of people with advanced degrees.

[wm]

Although the emigration described by Professor Finkelstein (unsuccessful members of American Jewish elites) was way too small in numbers to affect Israel in any way.

[CogCalgary]

The early50s and 60s changed the demographics.
But we all know power gets held by basically one faction,or sub group.
The people that Finkelstein brags about going to school with are all lefties,except the judge.

[LAstryAGAIN]

With the exception of Turkey the only large Jewish Community outside Israel is in Iran
To Chabad ASk a Rabbi I sent the following query:
Date: 06/21/2023
Incident ID: 6008055
pUZZELED BY jEWISH IN eXHILE ACTIONS...:

Question:
Puzzeled why Jews In Iran still insist in staying in a country whose leaders are the spirtual children of Esau; Haman; Hitler -leaders who are plotting to destroy both the People and land of Israel? Does not the Torah tell to choose life-yet they will not go up to Israel and live....

On June 26,2023 I received the following reply:
Hi ,

1) Jews lived under the Czars of Russia for centuries, as well as under other antisemitic leaders, and found a way to live. This is not new. 2) The Jews in Iran are relatively safe. The Iranians do not want them to support Israel, but as long as they are loyal to Iran, they are allowed to live in peace. 3) It is not right for people to just uproot communities and move, even to Israel. It destabilizes Jewish life, and jeopardizes the most vulnerable in the community, such as the poor and the elderly, who are typically the ones who can’t move. It is also harmful for the children, who become outsiders in a new land where they don’t speak the language or know the customs, their parents become poor, and they lose their connection to their parents, their traditions, and their religious observance, not to mention how it affects their education. 4) This is really a question for the Jew of Iran, rather than for us.

The following article from our site has some information about Judaism in Iran today:
https://www.chabad.org/5294205

Please let me know if this helps. All the best,

Rabbi Shmary Brownstein
Chabad.org - Rabbis That Care


In view of the answer I received the last thing I can say...is that despite the 75 year war the Arab countries are still waging aganist all the Jews everyhere in the world...there are those who choose not to leave out of their own free will...Kay sera sera Whatever will be shall be..as the Old song goes...[example the Yemenite jews who resettled in the UAE (just across the border from Iran) because it has a Arab Culture....and not Israel,,,,] having made their choice not to go up to Israel...they must live with it....

[LAstryAGAIN]

On 06/27/2023 I wrote to ASk A Rabbi at Aish Torah:
Ask the Aish Rabbi a Question*
> pUZZLED WHY THE JEWS IN iRAN HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHOSE
> LEADERS ARE THE SPIRTUAL CHILDREN OF eSAU, hAMAN AND HITLER? lEADERS WHO
> HAVE VOWED TO DESTORY THE LAND OF iSRAEL AND THE PEOPLE OF iSRAEL? dOESNT
> THE tORAH SAY TO CHOOSE LIFE?

on 06/28/2023 I received a reply:
On 6/28/23, aish rabbi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear ,
> Thank you for contacting us. The Jews who are still in Iran have deep ties
> to their home going back many generations thus making it very difficult to
> leave.
>
> With blessings from Jerusalem,
>
> Rabbi Yoni Miller
> Aish.com
>

Reports of being Jewish in the Land of Haman....
https://www.jewishrefugees.org.uk/tag/jews-of-iran

yes the Jews of Iran have made their choice to stay...
their fate?
https://www.thehebrewcafe.com/forum/sea ... order=desc
https://www.thehebrewcafe.com/forum/sho ... ip#pid4393

Iran/PLO/Hamas/Hebullah et al hope for a Judenfrei Arab Palestine
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0

[LAstryAGAIN]

it is a matter of record that the last living Jews in Iraq number 3--yet the Iraqis are so terrified of three powerless Jews that they passed a law that any contact with Israel will be punished with death.Logic dictates that it is only a matter of time that the Arab/Muslin states in Middle east Africa and asia..will follow Iraqs lead....all Jewish persons will be either killed or driven out....before Iran strikes at Israel....without mercy....and then the West will pay for its folly of not standing up for Israel In the United Nations {Zionism is racism vote passed without a veto]. ...2/4 of the world under the domanian of ISlamic law/and the Arab colors of Black/green/ red the final Arab revenge for the crusades of 700 years ago....and losing Spain/Portugal in 1492 and then losing Greece and the Balkins.....within the last 200 years {Sigh] Im afraid its too late for the West to wake up and face reality.....RIP

[LAstryAGAIN]

On 6-29-2023 I sent the following query to Chabad Ask A Rabbi
A jewish person prayer to the L-D?:

Question:
Can A Jewish person submitt the following prayer to the L-D? A devout
Jewish person takes very seriously the fact that all Jews are
responible for the spritural welfare for their fellow Jewish brothers
and sisters but having studied history of Jewish Communities and comes
to the realization that the leaders of a country where galat jews
reside are spitural descendants of esau; haman and hitler; and that
they plan to not just expell the Jews but kill them without
mercy...would it be entirely proper for this person to give a
heartfelt prayer to the L-d that the jews of this community receive
understanding from the L-D that it is time for them to go en masse Up
to the Land of Israel ?

On 7-3-2023 I received a Answer
Hi ,

A person can pray for whatever he or she deems necessary, and is obligated to do so. Certainly praying for the safety of fellow Jews is a great virtue. May your prayers have their effect.

All the best,

Rabbi Shmary Brownstein
Chabad.org - Rabbis That Care



Browse the Archive of Questions & Answers:
http://www.chabad.org/k13032



On 7-2-2023 I sent the same query to Aish Torah Ask A Rabbi:
A jewish person prayer to the L-D?:

Question:
Can A Jewish person submitt the following prayer to the L-D? A devout
Jewish person takes very seriously the fact that all Jews are
responible for the spritural welfare for their fellow Jewish brothers
and sisters but having studied history of Jewish Communities and comes
to the realization that the leaders of a country where galat jews
reside are spitural descendants of esau; haman and hitler; and that
they plan to not just expell the Jews but kill them without
mercy...would it be entirely proper for this person to give a
heartfelt prayer to the L-d that the jews of this community receive
understanding from the L-D that it is time for them to go en masse Up
to the Land of Israel ?


On 7/2/23, aish rabbi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any prayer for the good of one's fellow is surely viewed favorably.
>
> With blessings from Jerusalem,
>
> Rabbi Yoni Miller
> Aish.com

[wm]

Hitler once said:

If anyone has needs of a metaphysical nature, I can’t satisfy them with the Party’s program.

And he added:

Time will go by until the moment when science can answer all the questions. So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches.
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble.

[Georg_S]

Hello

Modern political / history questions are against the rules of AHF.

Post deleted!

Best regards
Georg

[gebhk]

Errm George, not to be difficult, but isn't the whole thread about modern politics and history?

[Georg_S]

Hello Gebhk,

you are right I lock this thread and remove it to the correct place in other words the trashbin.

//Georg