Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly normal"?

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Obi44
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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by Obi44 » 14 Apr 2023 13:48

wm wrote:
13 Apr 2023 22:43
Obi44 wrote:
12 Apr 2023 06:29
To pretend that there were no ideologically-driven men running the Holocaust is a faulty stance. Each man was different, with varying levels of belief in Nazi ideals and varying limits when it came to carrying out their perceived "duty."

Also, nowhere does this suggest an anti-Republican stance, unless you want to suggest Republicans are supposedly preoccupied with violence and sex?
It doesn't, but it looks like today's anti-Republican talking points. "Preoccupied with violence and sex" is, of course, the opposition against sex education in schools and the LGBTQIA+ chutzpah.

We are all driven by some ideology, so "ideologically-driven" explains nothing. Was there burning people in ovens in national socialism? I don't think so.
The explanation was:
If we cannot now obliterate the biological basis of Jewry, the Jews will one day destroy the German people
which suggests paranoia, not ideology.
And the SS creed required blind obedience - "My Honor Is Loyalty", that had nothing to do with ideology either.
Burning people in ovens after brutally murdering them through work, gas, or shooting came as a result of National-Socialism. It was driven by Nazi ideology. Do you think it would occur under, say, the social democratic government? No.

The quote suggests paranoia...caused by an ideology...which charged that Jews were out to get Germans and Germany as a whole. What's your point here? If we are all driven by ideology then why aren't the Nazis?

I could say the same for your "blind obedience" (which was only an ideal, SS members were fully capable of abandoning their heinous work and going off to do something else), that would also be ideological...because guess what they were intended to be obedient to.
Obi

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wm
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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by wm » 14 Apr 2023 19:46

So people with equality of rights, guaranteed inviolability of the person, with freedom of speech, the press, assembly, conscience, religious worship on their banners won't ever do it?

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by gebhk » 15 Apr 2023 10:26

Hi WM

Highly unlikely, because it would require a change of law and that can only happen if there is a change in ideology. I simply can't see how you can disassociate politics from ideology, especially if we consider ideology as a complex of conscious belief systems and hard-wired behaviour patterns.

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by wm » 15 Apr 2023 10:52

So we have a problem here.
Because I've got all the rights straight from the 1936 (Stalinist) Constitution of the Soviet Union.

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by Obi44 » 15 Apr 2023 14:18

wm wrote:
15 Apr 2023 10:52
So we have a problem here.
Because I've got all the rights straight from the 1936 (Stalinist) Constitution of the Soviet Union.
Maybe you should distinguish between theory and practice.
Obi

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by gebhk » 15 Apr 2023 15:04

Because I've got all the rights straight from the 1936 (Stalinist) Constitution of the Soviet Union.
Well you did say 'guaranteed' and the above mentioned constitution clearly guranteed not very much at all :wink:

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by wm » 16 Apr 2023 00:53

And what guarantees do we have today? Just recently, the EU censored all Russian media; it was easy - despite all the freedom of speech we all supposedly enjoy.
Hitler had it easy in 1933 too. He merely used all the rights, all the beautiful statements in the Weimar Constitution against it.

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Re: Is it true that many of the captured organizers of the holocaust were diagnosed by psychiatrists as "perfectly norma

Post by gebhk » 16 Apr 2023 13:49

Hi WM

I think we might be talking at cross-purposes here. While a constitution is a broad statement of principles, how those principles are operationalised is the function of the law. And I think you would agree that the law was extensively changed and modified to make the horrors of the Soviet and Nazi systems fact. I find it difficult to see how one could argue that those changes in the law where not driven by ideology themselves, or enacted to facilitate an ideologically driven agenda. To address your specific example, no country on earth has ever permitted limitless free speach. And where the boundaries are drawn is either directly or indirectly dictated by ideology - as it is in your example.

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