The argument can certainly be made, but so far no poster has made it successfully. I tried to point out some of the conceptual problems at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 83#p608983 and at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 07#p743007I'm just wondering, if there were no legally-binding treaties or conventions in relations to the conduct of aerial warfare and bombardment, does this mean that the perspective that Dresden was a "war crime" in the legal sense is not a valid point?
The war crimes issue specifically for Dresden is extensively argued in this thread:
Dresden bombing & post-liberation Euro gas chambers
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33480
and there are additional discussions specifically dealing with Dresden in this thread (Dresden Photos), as well as other threads at:
Was Dresden bombing "Terrorism"?"
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70783
Dresden 1945
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1000
Dresden 1945
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4838
Bombing of Dresden
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=20370
Destruction of Dresden
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43901
Churchill's Warcrimes
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25091
with some additional information at:
USAF Historical Analysis of the 14-15 February 1945 Bombings of Dresden
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 620#304620
Dresden 1945 -- Just Another Raid?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71835
Surface and subterranean petroleum, oil and lubricant facilities in the Dresden area
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 916#395916
The subject of war crimes and aerial bombardment in WWII Europe generally is discussed at:
Strategic Bombing as a War Crime
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17636
Can the bombing of cities be considered as "Warcrimes"?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9136
Churchill & Harris Terror Raids
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=29691
Debate over UK WWII strategic bombing
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25898
Terror bombing -- The Nazis started it
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25592
Carpet-bombing towns and cities
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44286
Stalingrad 23 Aug 1942: Tactics or Spoliation?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=72803
Belgrade 6 Apr 1941: Tactics or war crime?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73365
German Air War in Poland 1939: War Crime?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51772
Rotterdam 14 May 1940: Tactics or Terrorism?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=72797
The legality of targeting civilians
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=82959
WWII Strategic Bombing: Was it genocide?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80361
Nuremburg and Strategic Bombing
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2235
I don't know the answer to this question as far as it concerns the RAF. For the USAAF, precision bombing wasn't very precise, as the postwar studies of the US Strategic Bombing Survey (Europe) showed:I've got a few more questions:
2. As the accuracy of heavy bombers was increasing in the latter stages of the war, could a precision-attack similar to the ones on the Ruhr dams or the Tirpitz been an alternative form of attack at that time for the RAF and USAAF on the railways, marshalling yards and factories in Dresden?
US Strategic Bombing Survey (Europe) on bombing accuracy
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 939#395939
Could you be more specific?3. What were the conditions like during the month of February 1945?
I think the destruction of Dresden was generally reckoned to be disproportional at the time, though there is a controversy over whether the resulting firestorm was an intended result. As actually conceived and planned, the bombing of Dresden would probably be illegal under the 1949 Geneva Convention on the protection of civilians during wartime.4. Could the military objectives be considered disproportionate to the damage inflicted based on today's laws in any way?
1949 - Convention (IV) Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva07.htm
Your first question is discussed in some of the other threads. As I recall, the damage was moderate. I have never seen an answer to your second question.5. What was the damage like on the actual military targets in Dresden after the firebombing? And in relation to the railways, did the damage have a short or long-term effect on the movement of Wehrmacht troops to the Eastern Front?
Dresden did have anti-aircraft protection – see the report at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 42#p6059426. Does the fact that Dresden had no anti-aircraft protection but a couple of fighters and searchlights have any impact on the legitimacy of the city as a military target?
and more than a couple of fighter aircraft to defend it. See the summary (pdf file) of the 14 Feb 1945 raid on Dresden -- 4 B-17s shot down; group attacked by 25-30 Me-109s and FW-190 fighters in Tactical Operations of the 8th Air Force 6 Jun 1944-8 May 1945, Interdiction for the Russian Armies pp. 147-150
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAFHS/AAF-HS-70.pdf
Since the city was occupied, defended and used for military purposes, and was never declared or made an open city, it was (as you conclude below), a legitimate military target under the applicable war crimes laws of the time.
In the war crimes trials held by military tribunals of the western allies, the test on this issue was "objective necessity" – in other words, could a reasonable commander in the place of the defendant, who had the same information available to him as the defendant had, conclude that the destruction was a military necessity? Where the judges substantially disagreed, the charge was regarded as unproven. You can find several discussions of these cases (some unprosecuted), using the forum search engine and the search term "spoliation," with the search field restricted to the H&WC section. For the case of Dresden specifically, there are the interesting essays at:7. Dresden was a legitimate military target. But was it a "military necessity"? in hindsight? In the context of the early 1945, did Bomber Command and the USAAF consider the bombing of Dresden to be a "military necessity"?
USAF Historical Analysis of the 14-15 February 1945 Bombings of Dresden
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 620#304620 and
Dresden 1945 -- Just Another Raid?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71835
I don't know. I'm more interested in history than historiography.8. In terms of the historical debates surrounding Dresden, we can call Irving and Friedrich as "revisionists". What type of historians could we classify Frederick Taylor and Gotz Bergander? (eg- post-modernist, empiricist, modernist etc).
Any time, kujah.Thanks for any replies, and apologies if the answers already have been provided in previous posts or in other threads. I just had a quick skim through thus far.