May the dogs die a dog's death - the Jews a Jew's death.

[Zundel]

Hello Fellas , look i'm only new to this great forum but i wanted to respond to this thread , it's important to tell the *truth* !
if you call it denial of this or that *politically correct* version of History then that is your problem , there are a great many people wishing to understand History because it is our direct link to what is happening today in our daily lives.

Any comments will be appreciated , let's have free and intelligent speech shall we.

P.S don't be scared of being bashed down for speaking up...the time for being timid is OVER.

===============================================================================

Concerning the Jews and Communism


Out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . .


There Were in 1918-1919:


457 Jews


...But Only...


17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans,


1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim





Here are the research statistics from the published historical studies in detail...

"Last Days of the Romanovs," by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 -- According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

(Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol. XIII, p. 912) -- "In 1907, May 13 thru June 1, a fifth Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party was held, this time in London. This was the last one held before the 1917 revolution in Czarist Russia. Present: The Bolsheviks, led by Lenin---91 delegates [mostly Jews] The Mensheviks, led by Martov and Dan [JEWS] -- 89 delegates The Polish Social Democrats, led by Rosa Luxemborg [JEW] -- 44 delegates The Jewish Bund, led by Rafael Abramovitch and M.I. Lieber [JEWS)---55 delegates. The Lettish Social Democrats, led by 'Comrade Herman' Danishevsky Lenin [JEW] appeared on the scene, after an absence of nine years."

"The Surrender of an Empire," Nesta H. Webster, Boswell Printing and Publishing Company, Ltd., 10 Essex St., London, W.C.2, 1931, p. 77 -- The Germans, not realizing that he would be anything more than a trouble maker for their World War I enemy, Russia, passed him and his party (exact number disputed -- about 200?) In a sealed train from Switzerland to the Russian border. In Lenin's sealed train, "Out of a list of 165 names published, 23 are Russian, 3 Georgian, 4 Armenian, 1 German, and 128 Jewish."

"The Surrender of an Empire," Nesta H. Webster, Boswell Printing and Publishing Company, Ltd., 10 Essex St., London, W.C.2, 1931, p. 73 -- T"At about the same time, Trotsky arrived from the United States, followed by over 300 Jews from the East End of New York and joined up with the Bolshevik Party".

Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. IX, p. 668 -- Thus under Lenin, whose birth-name was Ulianov and whose racial antecedents are uncertain, and under Leon Trotsky, a Jew, whose birth -name was Bronstein, a small number of highly trained Jews from abroad, along with Russian Judaized Khazan and non-Jewish captives to the Marxian ideology, were able to make themselves masters of Russia. "Individual revolutionary leaders and Sverdlov -- played a conspicuous part in the revolution of November, 1917, which enabled the Bolshevists to take possession of the state apparatus".

[Archivist's and Librarian's Notations.] Here and there in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia other Jews are named as co-founders of Russian Communism, but not Lenin and Stalin. Both of these, however, are said by some writers to be half-Jewish. In addition, Stalin was married to a Jewish lady, whose husband, Lazar Kaganovich murdered 35 million Christians and burned down cathedrals, publishing statements of note in Russian newspapers about the new world he was creating by doing this. Whatever the racial antecedents of their top men, the first Soviet commissariats were largely staffed with Jews and the Commissar of Commissars was Leon Trotsky [real name "Bronstein"], a radical, atheist Jew who spent time while exiled from Russia in New York City with hundreds of other active, radical socialist/communist Jews from the Eastern European Pale. The Jewish position in the Communist movement was well understood in Russia.

Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. I, p. 336 -- "The White Armies which opposed the Bolshevik government linked Jews and Bolsheviks as common enemies".

Those interested in the ratio of Jews to others in the government in the early days of Communist rule in Russia should, if possible, see Les derniers jours des Romanof (The Last Days of the Romanovs) by Robert Wilton, long the Russian correspondent of the London Times quoted above and below.

A summary of its vital passages is included in the "Foreword to Third Edition" of The Mystical Body of Christ in the Modern World (Brown and Nolan , Limited Waterford, Dublin, Belfast, Cork, London, 1939, 1947) by Rev. Dinis Fahey, a well-known Irish professor of philosophy and Church history. Professor Fahey gives names and nationality of the members of the Council of Peoples Commissars, the Central Executive Committee, and the Extraordinary Commissions, and in summary quotes from Wilton.

"Last Days of the Romanovs," by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 -- According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

[David Thompson]

Zundel -- You wrote:

Hello Fellas , look i'm only new to this great forum but i wanted to respond to this thread , it's important to tell the *truth* !
if you call it denial of this or that *politically correct* version of History then that is your problem , there are a great many people wishing to understand History because it is our direct link to what is happening today in our daily lives.

Any comments will be appreciated , let's have free and intelligent speech shall we.

P.S don't be scared of being bashed down for speaking up...the time for being timid is OVER.

Then you posted some material on Jewish functionaries of the early USSR.

Here are some observations:

(1) The topic of this thread is anti-Semitism in post-war Czechoslovakia, specifically, the 1952 Slansky trial. Your post has nothing to do with that topic.

(2) The H&WC section of the forum is set aside for discussions of Twentieth century war crimes and the WWII holocaust. Your post has nothing to do with either. From the H&WC section rules:

D. Topicality

The fourth rule of the forum is: "Keep the message on topic." There are two aspects to this rule. The first involves topics which may be discussed in this section of the forum. The second involves staying on topic when posting to a thread.

Permissible subjects for this section of the forum are the holocaust and twentieth century war crimes. If a thread isn't discussing something related to those subjects, it's off-topic.

Although there are occasionally exceptions, the forum management tries to keep a thread on a single topic. This makes it easier for readers to follow, and for researchers to subsequently locate, the discussions. If a poster would like to see further discussion of off-topic matters, please raise the subject in a pre-existing thread on that topic or, if there are no pre-existing threads, on a separate thread.

Non-complying posts are subject to deletion after warning.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962

(3) We don't permit demeaning generalizations about any national, ethnic, racial or religious groups here. From the section rules:

National and religious insults are forbidden by this first rule of the forum, as are racist remarks and slang expressions for ethnic, religious or racial groups. Remarks containing insulting generalizations about nationalities, ethnic groups, societies or religious groups and practices are not permitted here. This includes remarks about collective responsibility.

Nonconforming posts are subject to deletion without warning. Serious breaches of these rules are punishable by banning the poster.

The title of your post is "Fathers of Communism - Facts Are Facts," which places your post squarely within this prohibition.

(4) This is an apolitical forum, so we don't put up with agitprop here either. See my earlier warning to you at: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 120#647120

For the most part, noncomplying posts in this section of the forum are deleted after a warning. This is yours.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . .


There Were in 1918-1919:


457 Jews


...But Only...


17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans,


1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim

Since when is 'Jew' a nationality? The closest we will come to this is the State of Isreal, but this state wasn't created until 1947-11-29 - almost 30 years after your time frame. Even more so, a Jew isn't by default Israeli, and an Israeli isn't by default a Jew.

(Didn't mean to steal the topic, David... )

Christian

[lavella]

Hello Fellas , look i'm only new to this great forum but i wanted to respond to this thread , it's important to tell the *truth* !
if you call it denial of this or that *politically correct* version of History then that is your problem , there are a great many people wishing to understand History because it is our direct link to what is happening today in our daily lives.

Any comments will be appreciated , let's have free and intelligent speech shall we.

P.S don't be scared of being bashed down for speaking up...the time for being timid is OVER.

===============================================================================

Concerning the Jews and Communism


Out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . .


There Were in 1918-1919:


457 Jews


...But Only...


17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans,


1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim





Here are the research statistics from the published historical studies in detail...

"Last Days of the Romanovs," by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 -- According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

(Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol. XIII, p. 912) -- "In 1907, May 13 thru June 1, a fifth Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party was held, this time in London. This was the last one held before the 1917 revolution in Czarist Russia. Present: The Bolsheviks, led by Lenin---91 delegates [mostly Jews] The Mensheviks, led by Martov and Dan [JEWS] -- 89 delegates The Polish Social Democrats, led by Rosa Luxemborg [JEW] -- 44 delegates The Jewish Bund, led by Rafael Abramovitch and M.I. Lieber [JEWS)---55 delegates. The Lettish Social Democrats, led by 'Comrade Herman' Danishevsky Lenin [JEW] appeared on the scene, after an absence of nine years."

"The Surrender of an Empire," Nesta H. Webster, Boswell Printing and Publishing Company, Ltd., 10 Essex St., London, W.C.2, 1931, p. 77 -- The Germans, not realizing that he would be anything more than a trouble maker for their World War I enemy, Russia, passed him and his party (exact number disputed -- about 200?) In a sealed train from Switzerland to the Russian border. In Lenin's sealed train, "Out of a list of 165 names published, 23 are Russian, 3 Georgian, 4 Armenian, 1 German, and 128 Jewish."

"The Surrender of an Empire," Nesta H. Webster, Boswell Printing and Publishing Company, Ltd., 10 Essex St., London, W.C.2, 1931, p. 73 -- T"At about the same time, Trotsky arrived from the United States, followed by over 300 Jews from the East End of New York and joined up with the Bolshevik Party".

Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. IX, p. 668 -- Thus under Lenin, whose birth-name was Ulianov and whose racial antecedents are uncertain, and under Leon Trotsky, a Jew, whose birth -name was Bronstein, a small number of highly trained Jews from abroad, along with Russian Judaized Khazan and non-Jewish captives to the Marxian ideology, were able to make themselves masters of Russia. "Individual revolutionary leaders and Sverdlov -- played a conspicuous part in the revolution of November, 1917, which enabled the Bolshevists to take possession of the state apparatus".

[Archivist's and Librarian's Notations.] Here and there in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia other Jews are named as co-founders of Russian Communism, but not Lenin and Stalin. Both of these, however, are said by some writers to be half-Jewish. In addition, Stalin was married to a Jewish lady, whose husband, Lazar Kaganovich murdered 35 million Christians and burned down cathedrals, publishing statements of note in Russian newspapers about the new world he was creating by doing this. Whatever the racial antecedents of their top men, the first Soviet commissariats were largely staffed with Jews and the Commissar of Commissars was Leon Trotsky [real name "Bronstein"], a radical, atheist Jew who spent time while exiled from Russia in New York City with hundreds of other active, radical socialist/communist Jews from the Eastern European Pale. The Jewish position in the Communist movement was well understood in Russia.

Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. I, p. 336 -- "The White Armies which opposed the Bolshevik government linked Jews and Bolsheviks as common enemies".

Those interested in the ratio of Jews to others in the government in the early days of Communist rule in Russia should, if possible, see Les derniers jours des Romanof (The Last Days of the Romanovs) by Robert Wilton, long the Russian correspondent of the London Times quoted above and below.

A summary of its vital passages is included in the "Foreword to Third Edition" of The Mystical Body of Christ in the Modern World (Brown and Nolan , Limited Waterford, Dublin, Belfast, Cork, London, 1939, 1947) by Rev. Dinis Fahey, a well-known Irish professor of philosophy and Church history. Professor Fahey gives names and nationality of the members of the Council of Peoples Commissars, the Central Executive Committee, and the Extraordinary Commissions, and in summary quotes from Wilton.

"Last Days of the Romanovs," by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 -- According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

Hello
for a newcomer, Mr Zundel doesn't try to disguise !
Zundelsite and IHR(that he gives for his website) are notorious revisionist and negationist(not to mention wildly antisemitic) well known websites
May I ask our moderator to" clean the house "and warn (once more!) our contributors of the established rules of this forum
Reproducing all the topics of IHR is very easy .......but may produce endless controversy which is far beyond the historic and research goal of this forum
Is this forum a place for Nazism apology or admirers of SS "foreign legions "of any kind !!!

Good evening ,Sorry for my approximate english ,I'd have been more clever in French

[David Thompson]

lavella -- You said:

May I ask our moderator to" clean the house "and warn (once more!) our contributors of the established rules of this forum

See:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 131#647131
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 120#647120

referring Zundel to the section rules (which also contain the forum rules):

II. Rules of the forum

When this forum was established in its present form on 9 Mar 2002, its creator posted these rules at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6&start=0 :

* No insults are tolerated (that includes serious national and religious insults)
* No revisionism (ie. denying the Holocaust) or racism is tolerated
* No glorifying of nazism/fascism or those dictatorships is tolerated
* Keep the message on topic
* When quoting from a book or site, please provide info on the source (and a link if it is a website)
* Use your real name as username, or at least sign your posts with your real first name. Posting in the forum using more than one account is not tolerated.

In answer to a question on the consequences of breaking one or more of these rules, Marcus Wendel responded:

Yes, you will be warned if you violate the guidelines and if you continue violating them you will be banned. I have the final say and when someone is banned I post a note about it in the forum. Everyone is free to comment on the decision but I have not so far changed my mind about a banning (it is such a definitive decision so I tend to give it a lot of thought before I resort to that).

[bratello]

In 1970 the French Director Costa-Gavras directed a film called L'Aveu (The Confession in UK and USA) with Yves Montand in leading role based on Slanky's trial. A well made movie, unfortunately, hard to find on DVD.

[bratello]

What an unpleasant sentiment on the part of the editors of Rudé Pravo, the Czech communist newspaper.

- Leaving aside the question of authenticity (rightly raised by m. mills) and considering that DT took Luca's posting at face value, I have to agree with Ostuf Charlemagne that "unpleasant" is not quite the right adjective expected from DT in this context, considering his objectivity consistently displayed in other instances (despite, as it appears to me, his "left of center" world view). "Ugly, awful, terrible" would be more appropriate (unless my "English as a second language" fails me);

- Dan wrote: "I never would have even guessed about the Soviet aid which was instrumental in establishing Israel..."

The USSR was consistent in supporting the creation of Israel. It (ie USSR, Ukranian SSR and Bielorussian SSR) voted in favor of Res. 181 (Nov. 29, 1947) which called for the creation of the Jewish State. (BTW Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey and Yemen voted against, while Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom and Yugoslavia abstained). The future Israel PM Golda Meier was the first Israel Ambassador in the USSR. The USSR position towards Israel changed very soon, though;

- michael mills wrote: "I would be wary of accepting the translation of an alleged quote from Rude Pravo at face value..."

Even at the height of post war anti-Semitic campaign in the USSR, the words "Jew" or "Jewish" were rarily used. The code words were, of course, "Zionist", but more often used in the Soviet press were "Космополит" (i.e. Cosmopolite) or "Космополит безродный" (ie Rootless cosmopolite). The Soviet Union was a multi-national state (with the Jewish ASSR being part of it) and could not show any prejudice against any nationality. A similar "PC" was demanded from East European Communist press as well;

- The crackdown in Eastern Europe (Hungary's Rajk trial of 1949, Czechoslovakia's Slansky trial of 1952, Poland's Gomulka trial of 1954, etc.), among other things, was to make sure that the East European Communist Parties don't follow Tito's "third way". Accusations of being "Titoist agents" or being in contat with the "Titoist agents" figured prominently in the above trials. (Other milestones: Budapest 1956, Poznan 1956, Prague 1968 and the ideological justification of it all by "Brejnev's doctrine").

[Skythe]

An airforce was assembled in Czechoslovakia, consisting of captured German aircraft, including Messerschmidt fighters, bombers and transports.

Incorrect, save for the Avia 199s, the IDF/AF did not operate any other German aircraft, neither manufactured nor captured.

After Medinat Yisrael declared its independence in May 1948, the airforce took off from Czechoslovakia, with Jewish pilots and carrying the trained men.

Again, incorrect. There was no "assembly", at no point did the Czechs host an "airforce". At the time of the Israeli declaration of independence only a handful of Avias were sent to Israel, delievered on board C-46s which had been sent to carry them.

The bombers made a detour en route, flying over Cairo and bombing it before landing in Medinat Yisrael.

Wrong, the bombing of Cairo by three B-17s was carried out on July 15, a full two months later.

Perhaps they wanted to terrorise the Egyptian Government out of sending its army into Palestine to assist the hard-pressed Arab defenders of Jaffa, who were under siege by Jewish forces at the time.

That would have perhaps made sense if the Arab defenders of Jaffa had not surrended two months earlier.

[Boosh]

As I've come to understand it, Cairo was bombed in reaction to Egyptian Spitfire attacks on Israeli cities and held locations, except, as Israel gained the upper hand, the bombings of Cairo increased dramatically in scale.

[michael mills]

I have just noticed the post by Skythe.

The information about former German aircraft including Messerschmidt's being gathered in Czechoslovakia for sending to Medinat Yisrael with Jewish pilots, upon independence in May 1948, comes from the book "O Jerusalem", by Collins and Lapierre.

The information about the bombers taking off from Czechoslovakia, refuelling in Yugoslavia, and bombing Cairo en route, comes from another book which I read, but the name of which I forget. It was written by a former member of Etzel.

I have read in other books by Jewish survivors about how they were given post-war military training in various places in Eastern Europe, eg in Lwow, which by then had been re-annexed by the Soviet Union, before being sent to Medinat Yisrael in 1948 to participate in the war against the Arabs.

I would be surprised if the various memoirs by Jews who trained in Eastern Europe under Soviet auspices, or who flew aircraft from places in Eastern Europe to Medinat Yisrael, are all totally fictional.

It seems to me more likely that the Government of the Jewish State has concealed the amount of military assistance received from Soviet satellites in 1948, in the context of its eventually successful attempt to align itself with the United States from 1950 onward. That would simply be part of the general falsification of the history of the Jew-Arab conflict in 1947-49.

[jabhatta]

I have just noticed the post by Skythe.

The information about former German aircraft including Messerschmidt's being gathered in Czechoslovakia for sending to Medinat Yisrael with Jewish pilots, upon independence in May 1948, comes from the book "O Jerusalem", by Collins and Lapierre.

The information about the bombers taking off from Czechoslovakia, refuelling in Yugoslavia, and bombing Cairo en route, comes from another book which I read, but the name of which I forget. It was written by a former member of Etzel.

I have read in other books by Jewish survivors about how they were given post-war military training in various places in Eastern Europe, eg in Lwow, which by then had been re-annexed by the Soviet Union, before being sent to Medinat Yisrael in 1948 to participate in the war against the Arabs.

I would be surprised if the various memoirs by Jews who trained in Eastern Europe under Soviet auspices, or who flew aircraft from places in Eastern Europe to Medinat Yisrael, are all totally fictional.

It seems to me more likely that the Government of the Jewish State has concealed the amount of military assistance received from Soviet satellites in 1948, in the context of its eventually successful attempt to align itself with the United States from 1950 onward. That would simply be part of the general falsification of the history of the Jew-Arab conflict in 1947-49.

Hi Michael - a quick question. Why was the USA so quick / desperate to recognize Israel in 1948 ?

Didn't USA have pressures NOT to recognize Israel in 1948, specifically

-- Anger from the Arabs (Saudi Arabia was a source of oil for the Americans per my understanding)

The US recognition of Israel in 1948 does not make sense to me

[wm]

In this case, "Jew's death" means cowardly death.
In Central and Eastern Europe and Russia, "Jewish" was one of the synonyms of cowardly, and Jews were believed to be cowards.

This was based on draft-dodging by the Orthodox Jews (even in the philosemitic Austria-Hungary); as late as 1941, Stalin said to the Polish leader: "The Jews are bad soldiers; why do you want them?"
In Israel, the Ultra-Orthodox Jews refuse to serve in the military to this day (with some exceptions) and are exempted from it.

And it was based on their pattern of behavior as they set themselves apart from the surrounding society, avoided all unnecessary contact with the outside world, and avoided confrontations.

But it's quite shocking that a communist rag used such a slur. It was against the very core of communist ideology to blame nations or races; only certain social classes were declared inherently evil.

[COmentator]

Contray to Left Wing Zionist propaganda Orthdox Jews do serve in the IDF
https://matzav.com/the-true-source-of-re...i-bennett/

Their excemption from Military service is becuase they help the Jewish Nation remain focused on Being Jewish [I.E. a Torah based community]

According to Jewish Rabbanic Literature King Solomons grandson Asa had a short reign becuase he forcibely drafted Jewish Scholars to serve as soldiers...as the old saying goes...everything changes...yet nothing changes

[wm]

Although the Orthodox (mostly Western) and the Ultra-Orthdox Jews (East European) are two different things, only the Ultra-Orthodox (Haredim) are exempted.
And among them, Neturei Karta, Satmar, Toldos Aharon, the Sikrikim don't even recognize Israel; according to them, only G-d himself has the right to create Israel.